Coffee House

David Cameron makes a success of his Juncker failure in the Commons

30 June 2014

Normally when Speaker Bercow drags out a statement from the Prime Minister to over an hour and a half, the PM starts to look a bit pained. Today David Cameron looked as though he’d quite like a bit more: he’d spent most of the afternoon listening to Conservatives telling him how great he is and how pleased they are with him.

It must have been an odd sensation to see MPs like John Redwood rising to congratulate him on his failure to block Jean-Claude Juncker. Some Tories went further: Stewart Jackson told the Chamber that this episode of Cameron standing up to Europe showed he had ‘lead in his pencil’ (Cameron told him, rather confusingly, that he would ‘er, let the relevant people know’). Stephen O’Brien decided to offer a definition of going over the top by telling the Chamber that he hoped ‘the Prime Minister takes inspiration from the fact that in a previous battle of Britain, we saw off many Junckers before’. Some MPs laughed at that, while others recoiled.

How did Cameron have such a pleasant time in the Chamber when he failed to block Juncker? It didn’t look as though it was going to be so comfortable when Ed Miliband started his response to the statement. The Labour leader started out scornful, and made a good case for the failure of the Prime Minister to persuade other European leaders of his point of view. But he seemed to lose his way, and then continue trudging along without adding a great deal for far too long. He waffled to the extent that Tory MPs managed to build up a good wall of noise and unsettle him, and that Bercow intervened to say he was sure the Opposition leader would conclude his remarks soon. George Osborne was looking pointedly at his watch in parts.


Miliband’s case was, Cameron argued, rather undermined by his party’s decision to stand alongside the Conservatives in opposing Juncker. Of course, it is not mutually exclusive to argue that someone is right to oppose a candidate and then to complain that they mucked it up when their opposition failed to move other European leaders. But the Labour leader was insufficiently clear on this point. His backbench colleague Barry Sheerman made the case far more forcefully and in just a few sentences rather than a convoluted waffle when he made his point an hour later:

‘Can I say to the Prime Minister that some of us who would agree with him on the need for reform in Europe but are basically pro-Europe are rather disappointed and depressed by what happened in the European Council, and for the following reasons: that many of us think that Europe expanded a bit too far, too fast, but we want the reforms and we want them urgently. But what’s happened in Europe in the last few days has made the task of reform much more difficult and the fact of the matter is when we look back on this day when only his barmy army seem to be so well pleased, I think the trouble is brewing for all of us.’

Miliband should have focused on his disappointment that the Prime Minister failed to read the signals from other European leaders, that Labour’s support had included a degree of good faith that Cameron could persuade others, and that reform in Europe is now more difficult because the Prime Minister personally squandered good will. He could have pressed the Prime Minister for evidence of a good working relationship with the Germans, when so much of the failure over Juncker seems to have been about his failure to read Angela Merkel. Miliband tried to do this in his response, but was not forceful or sincere, which allowed Cameron to accuse him of being ‘weak, opportunistic and wrong’. The problem for Miliband is not that he opposed Juncker and is now complaining, but that he is complaining that Cameron made a mess of things without suggesting that he would have done any better himself, or even that he would have tried.

On that good working relationship with the Germans, Number 10 sources tried to argue afterwards that there were plenty of signs that Cameron and Merkel had a strong partnership, including working together on the EU Budget cut, and George Osborne working with Wolfgang Schauble to protect the interests of countries not in the euro. But this is the big problem for Cameron which Miliband failed to highlight: he thought he had Merkel’s support and he didn’t in 2011 when he ended up pulling out of the fiscal compact, and he thought he had Merkel’s support this year when he tried to block Juncker and he failed.

Cameron had to shift his language significantly over the course of that anti-Juncker campaign from confident briefings suggesting he really could stop the man, to arguing that it was important to take a principled stand even if no-one else agreed. Today he appeared to shift his language again on the referendum. The most revealing answer of the long session came in response to this question from Douglas Carswell:

‘What would have to happen for my honourable friend to come back from his renegotiations and recommend that people vote out?’

Cameron replied:

‘Well I have set out my approach which is to always follow the national interest, now I think it is in the national interest to renegotiate our position in Europe, to secure the changes that I have set out, and I don’t start a negotiation believing that I won’t achieve those things, I set out wanting to achieve them, wanting to come back to this country, but I will always do what is in the national interest.’

This sounded as though the Prime Minister is now prepared to contemplate voting to leave the European Union. And while he later clarified his position by saying he would want to vote ‘yes’ to stay in the EU if he got the reforms he was looking for, Cameron seemed to be relying a little more on the conditional than he has previously. His stance until today has been that he’s so confident he’ll get the reforms that he doesn’t even need to think about voting to leave. It will be interesting to see whether he sticks to what seems to be the new line of voting to stay if he gets the reforms. Perhaps he does feel a little chastened by his Juncker failure, even if this afternoon’s session in the Commons gave the impression that he’d won.

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  • Amir
  • Pier66

    John Stows published in 1598 a great book “Survey of London”
    He wrote that the East End was only an ocean of human garbage …
    Any changes since that age?

  • Snoxy01

    Not just a success in the commons, but also in the country at large. Any euroscepticism is a bounce for the Tories. The more serious the situation with Europe becomes, the more Ukip voters will return to the Conservatives.

  • Pier66

    Article 50

    1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.
    2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
    3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.
    4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.
    A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.
    5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.

  • Mick Norris

    The fact Tories were pretending we had some sort of victory is just ridiculous and if anything, should worry all right minded genuine EUsceptics.

    And the Tories wonder why many of their own do not trust them?

    • Fred Smith

      Well they were hardly going to fess up and say it was a total disaster and something it was a mistake to start.

      A disturbing number of people seem to have gone along with the laughable idea that Cameron was acting on principle, without any clear idea of what the principle was and that he was ‘standing up for Britain in Europe’.

      If a politician finds he has an audience of suckers like that, who’ll lap up any load of tosh, the results are predictable.

  • Piccadu

    Cameron stealing Farage’s stance.

  • english_pensioner

    Cameron refers to “the changes that I have set out”.
    Can someone tell me where I can see a list of these changes that he is seeking?

    • the viceroy’s gin

      No, and they don’t exist. Their alleged existence is merely another of Call Me Dave’s lies.

      • english_pensioner

        This is what I suspected. If he doesn’t tell use what he is hoping to get out of the EU, he can again claim some trivial change is a “great victory”.

  • Conway

    … now I think it is in the national interest to renegotiate our position in Europe, to secure the changes that I have set out, and I don’t start a negotiation believing that I won’t achieve those things” Meanwhile, in the real world, we all know he won’t achieve these things because he can’t achieve these things. The EU is not for turning away from free movement of labour and forming a federation – or indeed, releasing any powers it’s already grabbed and stashed under acquis communautaire. I am cynical enough now to believe that when Cameron spouts on about “the national interest” he believes “l’état c’est moi” and it’s what is in his interest that concerns him most.

  • Conway

    Cameron told him, rather confusingly, that he would ‘er, let the relevant people know’” That would be SamCam in the first instance, presumably.

  • Amir
  • TrulyDisqusted

    Well, if last week’s One vote of support from 27 others was a European success story for Dave, then I’m a monkeys uncle.

    As for this afternoon’s gushfest, Congratulations Westminster, you lot just confirmed my decision never to waste my vote on the Conservatives ever again.

    If my not voting Conservative and NEVER for LABOUR under any circumstances somehow let’s LABOUR in next year, is it really going to make any difference?

    Cameron and his flunkies are LOSERS, because to the rest of the world outside the Westminster bubble, that’s exactly what happened last week.

    Enjoy your hollow victory boys.

    • Holly

      Maybe the ‘rest of the world’ sees Cameron differently, and can see that, unlike previous governments, he is willing to stand up to Europe.

      Personally I would much rather the British Prime Minister upset Europe than ignore the mood of the public.

      This ‘hollow victory’ has done more for Cameron than it would have done if he had backed down.

      More of the same, and we should be out of Europe, sooner rather than later.

      • Denis_Cooper

        He’s already backed down.

        He warned of “consequences” if the other EU leaders insisted on nominating Juncker over his strong objections.

        So what are those consequences?

        When will we see their effects?

        Do they amount to “I will have to speak with Juncker on the phone and congratulate him and say that I expect we can work together”?

        • Holly

          Cameron spelt out that one day the other EU leaders will get saddled with someone who has different ideas over what goes.
          Or more than likely the British public will say enough is enough.
          In what way has Cameron ‘backed down’, last time I looked he has it on record that he didn’t.
          Speaking to Juncker does not come under ‘backing down’, and neither you, or I know what was said, or what will be said in the future, but we do know the direction of travel the Cameron led Tories are going in.
          It is a tiny step in the direction I want us to go, and there is no way Miliband would have stuck to it in the same way.
          They have no option but to work together, and like Cameron said, it is not Europe, or politicians who will decide, it will be the public.
          So far, Europe are on the wrong side of us.
          Long may it continue.

          • Denis_Cooper

            So those terrible “consequences” that he threatened will be what, and when?

            He threatened to stop Merkel using the EU institutions for the purposes of her “fiscal pact”, what happened about that?

            • Holly

              Cameron knows that one day this will come back and bite some of them on the backside.

              • the viceroy’s gin

                How’s that?

      • TrulyDisqusted

        It was a false fight Holly, wholly for domestic consumption.

        It doesn’t matter who the EU choose as President of the EU Commission, they will always be an arch-federalist. The players may change but the game is always the same Nd the game is Ever Closer Union.

        It’s a bit like arguing over which rotten apples make the best apple pie….

        • Holly

          The ‘domestic’ bit is what Cameron seems to have finally ‘got’, now all he has to do is hold on to it.
          He has a long long way to go yet.

          • TrulyDisqusted

            Happy for him Holly, I’m less happy for you that he believes he has any influence in a supranational institution that was designed to remove all power from national governments to prevent them repeating the same mistakes of the 20th Century all over again.

            Successive UK Government’s have signed all of their sovereign powers over to the EU over the last 40 years, no point David Cameron complaining when he is reminded that the UK signed the Treaties, and now She must abide by them.

            Dave has no power, that’s what Von Rompuy meant last week when Dave threw him out of Downing St when VR reminded Dave that HE would decide how the vote was worded and carried out last Thursday regarding Junker.

            So, either Dave is a fool or a liar, but he can’t be both. The UK signed all its power over to the EU, making us a vassal state. Thing is, why is it that I can understand this, yet Dave cannot?

            Perhaps it’s because he either can’t accept that he has no power, or he really needs the people of the UK to believe that he still has power…

            If you haven’t already, I’d suggest you read The Great Deception, available to download here for free ( or try The History of Europe by Derek Urwin. Both will help you see what the EU IS, and help you spot the many fools and liars who pose as UK Ministers or MSM journalists and presenters.


  • Smithersjones2013

    Well I’m glad Tories in Parliament had such a jolly afternoon but I do wonder of they have yet to recognise the significance of what has occurred. After all in some matters the European Parliament are now superior to national government’s with MEPs being considerably higher up the food chain than MP’s in which case when Cameron gets beaten in 2015 and resigns as leader forget Johnson, May, Gove, Osborne et al. Its got to be Dan Hannan for Tory Party leader!

    • Conway

      Why? To carry on the “oh the EU is awful, but I’m still going to go along with it” line?

      • Smithersjones2013

        Oh dear. One of those literals types. Clearly irony is lost on you. Next time I’ll say Syed Kamall in the hope you’ll get it (unless you have some overriding personal angst against Kamall as well?).

  • Denis_Cooper

    Oh, look at the liar Cameron, here in his statement:

    “There were two key changes. One was in the Nice treaty, which made the appointment of the European Commission President a matter for qualified
    majority voting, not a unanimous vote. The second change, in the Lisbon
    treaty, gave the European Parliament greater power.”

    Absolute rubbish; the Lisbon Treaty merely added the words:

    “Taking into account the elections to the European Parliament and after
    having held the appropriate consultations”,

    it did not give the European Parliament any more power than it had before,
    which was the same power as it had after the treaties had been amended by the Amsterdam Treaty, which was essentially the same power as that which Major originally agreed should be granted to MEPs through the Maastricht Treaty –


    If Cameron objects to MEPs having the power that they have now on this matter then he is objecting to essentially the same power that Major agreed should be granted to them through Maastricht; so is he going to propose a treaty change
    to take that power away from the EU Parliament, and revert to the position
    which had always obtained before that “Game, set and match for Britain”?

  • Ian Walker

    He didn’t squander good will – he let people who are used to taking the piss out of Britain know that it was time to stop.

    • southerner

      Except they won’t stop. And Dave has no intention of stopping them because he agrees with them.

    • Smithersjones2013

      And you think they were ever going to take any notice of dipshit Dave (hint 26-2 was a very demonstrative two fingered reply).

      It would be hilarious if it didn’t demonstrate the hopelessness of his ridiculous EU policy (” In Europe and humiliated by Europe”)…..

      • Ian Walker

        But he can’t do that directly, can he? Too many men in grey suits have vested interests in Britain staying part of the EU.

        It seems to me that if you wanted to manufacture a Brexit, while side-stepping the inertia of the civil service and the Europhiles, you could do a lot worse than Cameron’s “strategy” of allowing a centre-right anti-EU party to flourish and take Labour votes in the north, while staging a series of confrontations with the federalists that allow you to portray yourself as a reasonable-minded negotiator who is up against intractable hard-heads.

        Add in a bear trap of a backbench vote on an EU referendum that the Lib Dems and Labour will blunder into, then drop the ‘renegotiation’ part of the election pledge at the very beginning of the campaign proper, and keep Europe top of the agenda for six weeks while pointing out that the other parties vote publicly to deny the people their say. That should be enough to reach the ultimate goal of any election – to keep Labour’s corrupt and incompetent hands off of the economy.

        • Pier66

          you wrote a lot of silly things

          • Ian Walker

            Negativity is easy, and bandwagons are easy, so where’s the challenge in jumping on a negative bandwagon?

            Besides, on the microsopic chance that I turn out to be correct, my legend as a political sage will ensure high commissions for future writing, possibly even from this august magazine itself.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          You’re implying Dave believes in any of that. He believes in the exact opposite, and isn’t clever enough to execute political strategy even if he did. The man is incompetent.

  • jamesbarn

    Regardless of the poll figures, one thing has not so far been considered. It has been clear for some time that Euosceptism has been rising and trust in Camerons “renegotiation pledge” has been deminshing. Knowing as we do that the EU greatly fear the posibility of a UK withdrawal have any of you considered that the whole Junker affair could be a cherade concocted by both Cameron and Brussels in order to elevate his poll ratings,
    Cameron has always declared that he will fight to remain in the EU and in spite of his “renegotiation” claims he is very reluctant to spell out exactly what is up for renegotiation. Yes I know its a cynical speculation but we are talking polotics here and this issue has given him personaly a boost.

    • Ooh!MePurse!

      Actually James you are wrong on both of your initial claims. Support for exiting the EU has declined recently and when presented with three option (leave, stay with no renegotiation, vote after renegotiation), Cameron’s way is the most popular. You’ll be able to find the full stats on UK Polling Report.

      • Smithersjones2013

        Actually the latest poll showed the plurality in favour of leaving the EU 47% to 39%. That is significantly higher than it was a few weeks ago. Not only that but 41% of voters think it is now less likely that Cameron will get a deal.

        Furthermore, most of detailed analysis suggests that most people favour the EU being solely a trading arrangement which as anyone who has taken any notice of EU politics knows is simply not available whilst remaining a member. The only way that will be achieved is through withdrawal. Of course the dishonest and the simple minded interpret that as support for remaining in the EU when clearly it’s not.

        And there are no ‘full stats’ on UK Polling report. Just basic stats and a lot of subjective opinion. The detailed data is held on the various polling company sites!

      • the viceroy’s gin

        No, he won’t be able to “find the full stats” that you’re claiming, because they don’t exist. You merely fantasized them, as you’ve done previously.

    • Conway

      Everything Cameron does is with an eye to getting re-elected, but it’s all for show. He doesn’t want us out of the EU (too valuable to him personally), but he’s willing to pretend to be EU sceptic if it fools some people into voting for him. Judging by the leap in the polls, some people are only too willing to be fooled.

      • Kitty MLB

        Absolute nonsense.We will be having a referendum
        in 2017. Which I assume you support, but never
        mind live in your fools paradise.

  • allymax bruce

    Isabel, I’m surprised most commentators are looking at this situation as a negative; David Cameron was statesman-like, standing up for ‘Britian’, against the cabal of eurotarians. Cameron has waded straight into the UKIP territory, out-Faraging Farage; effectively garnering a sizable portion of 2015 General Election UKIP voters/conservative protestors, now inclined to vote Conservative next year; simply because of David’s strong stance against EU diktat. More than that, David Cameron went into this eurotarian-ambush, (with his eyes wide open, knowing the Commission would chuck the EU ‘peasants’ a few sweetners), demanding 100%; David Cameron piled-in like a scrapper, wanting EU reform, the spanish-archer for Juncker, and the slow dissemblemce of an ever-increasing pan European government. He has at least gained 30% of what he went for, established another 20% of what he continues to fight for, and accepted, (with conditions!), the other 50% as a loss; he’s played a brilliant hand again. You were right about Ed Miliband being unable to ‘close his attack’ on Cameron, and this is why. Ed Miliband got it wrong on the Syria vote, and Ed has misjudged the EU situation here again. It is Ed who has come out of this looking rather ineffectual; as such Barry Sheerman’s comments, “the task of [Europe] reform much more difficult”, is one of those Political Imposition soundbites that try to enforce the myth; where, the actuality is the absolute opposite. David Cameron has just strengthened his hand going into all EU negotiations, tarred the EU member (peasants) states that turned at the last minute as ‘owing Britain’, and put the blocks on Junckers. If I was in The City, I would be grateful to Cameron with the way he’s handled this. Cameron has been clever; he’s taken a direct hit from the eurotarians, but he’s moved the battle ground ‘front-line’ a good few miles backwards into the EU eurotarians territory.

    • TrulyDisqusted


      He LOST. There is no prize for coming 28th in a field of 28 no matter how fast anyone trys to spin this.

      Our Dear Leader made an impassioned plea… and his European “colleagues” spat venom in his face (anyone else notice a pattern here?).

      Dave’s more Chamberlain than Churchill and at this new crossroad in our European excursions, Britain sorely needs a Churchill!

      • allymax bruce

        Cheers mate; you’ve gotta be Kevin!
        ‘Britain’ was always going to lose in this EU ‘peasant-fest’ conglomeration; it’s how your ‘loss’ was managed that befits a true Statesman. And, it’s hard to fight for your country’s best outcomes when your own cross-party
        colleagues are trying to sell ‘Britain’ doon ra EU swanny. Regardless of what you think now, as an existential score, Cameron has out-manoeuvred the ambush from Labour, Lib-dems, and the EU Oligarchy stitch-up. Now, EU has to go more than the ‘extra mile’ to ‘accommodate’ ‘Britain’ in the EU. Unless you haven’t noticed, ‘Britain’ is closer to leaving the EU, than it ever has been. And, that puts the blocks on quite a few Neo-Con ‘projects'; TAP being the first & foremost! I really think the Neo-Con Oligarchs will be spitting venom at the way EU Oligarchs ‘conjured-up’ this ham-fisted discord! Thanks to Labour, Lib-Dems, and EU imbecility, ‘Britain’ is more than willing to leave the EU now!

        • TrulyDisqusted

          So Dave continues the Great British sell out, but because he makes the Lib Dems and Labour look bad whilst he continues to mislead the British public, that makes him a great statesman?

          In my eyes, that makes him just another traitor to his country and those who put their faith in him to always work in the best interests of the United Kingdom.

    • southerner

      “..I’m surprised most commentators are looking at this situation as a negative…”
      They aren’t. Almost all commentators are towing the press pack spin that this is a brave and principles fight by Dave. Only those in the bubble plus the deluded Camerloons actually buy that ridiculous spin of course. You appear to be one of them.

      • Kitty MLB

        Oh the Prime Minister was most certainly brave and
        principled to stand up to the EU succubus and not
        tow the line like good little England.It speaks
        volumes that UKIP are on the same side as Socialist
        Labour and the Lib Dems.
        And I have said it before, find some new insults
        they are somewhat tedious now.

        • Smithersjones2013

          The problem is Kitty nobody has the faintest idea whose side Dave is on although most think he’s not on their side just as nobody is clear on exactly what principle Dave was standing up for. Do you know?

          And if all it takes to be brave and principled is to make a few noises saying you don’t want someone appointed to a job then all of us on here are brave and principled!

          For example I don’t want Cameron to be PM after 2015! In fact I don’t want Cameron to be PM now! Let’s have a vote on it! See how ‘brave and principled’ I am?

          You might also seek some counselling for your homo-erotic fantasies about the EU. I’ve never heard of anyone likening Jean Claude Junckers and Herman Van Rompuy to mythological seductresses. How’s that for a new insult?

          PS And it’s ‘Toe the line’ you are not pulling anything…..

          • Kitty MLB

            You do seem to mention the word “fantasies”
            quite often.Maybe you’re thinking of that mythological island with Calypso and others.
            No need for details, I say it again, do fly
            away, no need for you to respond, darling.

      • allymax bruce

        My forte is Political Analysis. I’m not buying ‘ridiculous spin'; I’m too poor to afford ‘spin'; ridiculous, or not.
        Remember, I’m Scotch; too poor too we to stupid!

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …you are the worst political analyst I think I’ve ever seen, lad.

          No wait, you’re the best… you’re wrong every time, which means you’re perfect.

    • Conway

      … he’s taken a direct hit from the eurotarians, but he’s moved the battle
      ground ‘front-line’ a good few miles backwards into the EU eurotarians
      ” Only to have the lines moved back again in a few weeks’ time – much like the to-ing and fro-ing of WW1 and just as costly.

      • allymax bruce

        Hmmm, well I think ‘the enemy’ are weakened by this charade they conjured up; it has the fortunate interest to cost them a few more extra miles retreat!

        • the viceroy’s gin

          How are they “weakened”, lad?

    • Kitty MLB

      Dear Ally, an excellent post and insightful as ever.
      Other parties and groups just see the EU as their property
      and act as if they can control the beast.
      The Prime Minister is not on the side or the deceitful
      cowardice fools of Brussels but defends the United Kingdom.
      And as for Ed Moribund, he couldn’t handle a plate of
      jelly let alone the EU, whereras Cameron has fire
      in his belly and is invigorated.
      I might add he has the country supporting him in this

      • Smithersjones2013

        The Prime Minister is not on the side or the deceitful
        cowardice fools of Brussels but defends the United Kingdom.

        Now if you are not careful Kitty that nice Michael Gove is going to send his grammar police after you. He can’t have obedient little Tory doormats using badly formed sentences. Its “of” not “or” and ‘cowardly’ not “cowardice” dear!

        PS And when you speak to that counsellor I suggested you might mention your Ed Miliband jelly fantasies and Cameron’s invigorated belly fires!

        • Kitty MLB

          Oh most humble apologies, sir.I sent my previous post whilst somewhat tired and with
          little care.You could give me detension, I suppose, you’d like that. Might I gently remind
          you of the fact that I was responding to the
          gallant and inightful Ally and not you,
          so do fly away, not the slightest part interested
          in your obsurd view.

      • allymax bruce

        Hi Kitty, nice to hear from you again. I hope you are keeping well. Lots of love.
        Yes, I think David has found his niche talent; he certainly luvs to get stuck into the EU lot!

        • the viceroy’s gin

          Ok, I think I’m starting to get it now. You’re a satire.

    • Smithersjones2013

      Now we know why Cameron’s colleagues talked of ‘swivel-eyed nutters’ within the party and why the Tory party is in terminal decline in Scotland……

      • allymax bruce

        You wish.
        Haven’t you got any better arguments?

        • the viceroy’s gin

          Do you have any arguments at all?

  • Hamburger

    Regarding not being able to read Mrs Merkel. It is almost impossible. That is why the Americans tapped her phone.

    • telemachus

      Folks around here have been hostile to the Communications Data Bill
      I have always argued we need this on grounds of security
      And what affects our security more than being able to read effectively those with whom we have to play political poker hands
      I would bug the lot of them from Hollande to Matteo Renzi to Merkel
      Hang the libertarians

      • Andy

        But you are a Fascist. The EU is a Fascist project, so you favour the EU. You ought to, by rights, suffer as a Traitor.

      • the viceroy’s gin

        …let’s hang you fascists, instead.

    • Andy

      You can’t ‘read’ Merkel because she lies too much. Dave should turn round and tell her to her face ‘I will never believe a word you say’. That bitch is poison.

      • Hamburger

        She rarely lies, she has the ability of appearing to agree with someone while not actually saying so. I think that it is a consequence of her upbringing in the DDR. Doesn’t help much though.

  • DaveTheRave

    He’s going to need more than the Dunkirk Spirit.
    We need a patriot (not a rampant nationalist).
    We need a leader (not an appeaser).
    Where is this person?
    The USE is far more subtle than the Fourth Reich ever was.

  • Ray Veysey

    No the UKIP Loons are not screaming, the faux euphoria will fade. when the true failure becomes clearer, and when Cameron is seen to be cuddling up to the EU again, he’s already effectively apologised to Juncker, and has no intention of rejecting the European Arrest warrant, and the other EU justice laws we are going to finally take on board again soon, so we will be smiling again soon.

  • you_kid

    Well done David. Credit where credit is due … OMG, I can virtually hear the UKIP loons screaming now.
    Scotland gets to leave the EU after their referendum (!) yet we have to stay for ever and ever until the fascist and totalitarian EU introduce regional Gauleiters next.

    • allymax bruce

      When Scotland votes ‘Yes’ in 10 weeks time, and David Cameron is re-elected in 10 months time, he will have a powerful ally in iScotland.
      Trust me.

      • Inverted Meniscus

        That is one ally we can safely do without thank you. And don’t think that professions of friendship will get you a currency union with the UK. We don’t want to be underwriting your debt without limitation as to amount or term.

      • Smithersjones2013

        Hahahahahahaha powerful ally? A wet fart in a hurricane will have more potency!

      • the viceroy’s gin

        You’re delusional.

        The jocks are going to vote to remain affixed to the suckling teat of socialist government, and the H2B is going to have his head mounted on a spike.

        Trust me.

    • Smithersjones2013

      Are you congratulating Dave on losing 26-2 or for standing up in our parody of a Parliament in front of 650 nodding dogs to announcer that he had lost 26-2 but it was a ‘principled’ defeat?

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