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Want to know what the UK will look like under Miliband? Look at Wales

12 May 2014

Today, Labour in Wales celebrate 15 years in power. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, party members will congratulate themselves on what a fantastic job they’re doing. First Minister Carwyn Jones claims his administration represents a ‘living, breathing example of what the party can achieve in power’. Labour leader Ed Miliband agrees. He says ‘we have a great deal to learn from the things that Carwyn and his government are doing’. On housing, on health, on education, on people’s spending power – Labour certainly talks the talk. But in Wales, where they have had ample time to prove themselves, are they living up to Labour’s big promises? Let us consider a few examples:


Wales has consistently dropped down the international education rankings over the last 15 years. In the latest round of results, Wales came 43rd out of 65 countries in maths attainment, 41st in reading and 36th in science – marking a massive fall of six places. Despite the government in Westminster protecting education spending in Wales, Labour in Wales have exercised their powers under devolution to spend that money elsewhere and have in fact cut funding to schools significantly.


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The same goes for health in Wales, where despite ring-fencing in London, Labour has decided to cut spending by 8%. In the face of increased spending on the NHS in England, and a £1bn Cancer Drugs Fund that is helping thousands obtain lifesaving treatment, the shadow health secretary says the coalition can’t be trusted with the NHS. Andy Burnham accuses the government of creating a health postcode lottery, while over in Wales patients across the entire country – let alone a postcode – are suffering the consequences of huge funding cuts. Labour have refused to set up a Cancer Drugs Fund that would give Welsh cancer patients equal access to life-extending treatments. Like Burnham, who refused to meet Mid Staffs patient campaigners when he was health secretary, the Labour government in Wales is turning a blind eye to similar concerns raised by families badly let down by their local trusts.

And there is more bad news for health under Welsh Labour: the urgent cancer treatment target has not been met since 2008, and they have failed to reduce their target waiting time from 26 weeks to 18 weeks, unlike the government in Westminster. The Welsh NHS payments system is also reportedly punishing Welsh citizens who live near the border and have to be treated in English hospitals – where, because of Welsh payment requirements, the 26-week waiting time will usually still apply. Hardly a glowing advertisement for the Labour party in power.


Housing has taken pole position in Miliband’s general election campaign. But the latest statistics on new home registrations show Wales is the only region in the UK where new home registrations are falling quarter on quarter. Even Miliband’s record is not great: when in government, Labour presided over the lowest levels of house-building for nearly 100 years. Miliband claims a new Labour government would build 200,000 homes a year by 2020. In Wales, however, Labour are making it difficult and more expensive to build homes, particularly after they passed legislation that means every new home built after 2016 must be fitted with a sprinkler system. This measure alone will add up to £13,000 to the cost of building a three-bedroom home in Wales. Add to this the Welsh government’s failure to deregulate the planning system, as has been done in England, and it is little wonder that Persimmon Homes have pulled out of several areas of the Welsh housing market.

Value for money

Economic incompetence in Wales is punishing hardworking Welsh people. As the saying goes ‘price is what you pay; value is what you get’. Under Welsh Labour, you pay more for less. The average B and D council tax in Wales has more than doubled to £1,276, and it is now official Labour policy to move to monthly bin collections. Contrast this with what the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats have done for the people of Wales: 155,000 people taken out of income tax altogether; a tax cut for 1.6 million people; the abolition of the fuel duty escalator meaning a saving of £7 for the average Welsh family every time they fill up their tank.

Has Wales become a snapshot of what the entire UK might look like under Miliband’s brand of Labour? Miliband would certainly like it to be, but only if we continue not to look too closely at the Welsh government’s ‘achievements’. Failing on housing; failing on education; failing on health; failing on value for money for hard-working people and their families. 15 years of marriage is aptly associated with a crystal gift; in this instance it offers us a crystal clear reason never to put our trust in Labour again.

David Jones is the Secretary of State for Wales

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Show comments
  • Jacques Protic

    David Jones has not mentioned Welsh Language impact on Wales through a social engineering policy on the part of Welsh labour. Education is used as a tool to this aim and equally the public employment. It is increasingly becoming impossible to get any public job unless one has significant Welsh language skills.

    In other words Wales operates upon privileges extended to at best 10% of Welsh population and is rapidly going downhill.

    Most Welsh children have no interest in Welsh language and drop it the second they can which is when they reach secondary education and likely to have a bleak future in Wales which strictly operates for the benefit of Welsh speakers.

    Even non devolved body such as North Wales Police is operating effectively racially motivated employment policies and one can’t even get a cleaning job with the police unless individual has good Welsh language skills.

    To be a proper bobby or a high ranking officer you need to be a fluent Welsh speaker under the new regime SEE: – In other words to cater for few Welsh natonalists who refuse to speak English the whole force has to be bilingual!?

  • Terence Francis

    What is this here? Britain’s version of our nut-bar Tea Partiers in the US?

  • Dutchnick

    I take quite a simplistic view of the economy of a country. A country is nothing other than the sum total of the populations education, desire and ability to work and prosper based on personal responsibility. The creation of wealth enables me to live comfortably and contribute through my taxes to provide for those services I want and need the state to provide and to support others to achieve those aims.
    Socialism changes the core principle of those basic facts by introducing envy, hate and a belief that the state can run anything.Education in Wales has resulted in 26% of kids leaving school with no qualifications whatsoever! Can you imagine a car manufacturer making cars where 25% could not be driven? The company would go bust and if the cars were dangerous the directors would be in jail. No I am afraid that Socialism only works until they have incompetently spent all your money..You are right Wales is a prime example of Socialisms(and nationalisms) failure in action. .

  • Gwangi

    The health service in Wales has good sides and bad sides – just like that in England.
    Wales does need an enquiry though to see which bits are doing well (cancer care – better than England – and emergency heart and stroke care) and which are struggling (wards to the elderly; A&E departments; general waiting times for non-urgent stuff).
    Re property. Well I used to live in slums in London paying high rents to live like a rat. Even the poorest can afford a house in many parts of Wales.

  • Conway

    Labour has free prescriptions for all, while a couple of miles over the border you pay until you’re 60. A national health service? I think not.

  • Stewart Kidd

    I’m not competent to comment on the political points being made by David Jones but as a fire protection engineer with 40 years of experience I can say with total certainty that his reference to sprinkler systems costing £13,000 for a three bed room house are so far from reality that they resemble an MP’s expenses claim. In the vast majority of cases a new home can be fitted with a sprinkler system for around £3400.00. Mr Jones appear either to have been reading the Daily Mail or talking to the house building lobby. This is the group that claimed that houses were not being built in Wales because of increased cost two years before the change in building regulations was enacted.

  • bugshead

    Bloody idiots.

    Still, you get what you deserve and what you vote for.

    The Welsh fiasco show the wicked effectiveness of the socialist agenda – make the dumb buggers think that they are the ones in charge, throw them a few sprats like speaking their own language but make sure that you dumb them down on all measures so that they believe your crap.

  • Mynydd

    Mr Jones is a bit selective, so I’ll do likewise:
    Education: Tuition fees for English students have tripled from £3000 to £9000 whereas for Welsh students they have been capped at £3000.
    Health: NHS Prescription Charges in England £8.05 that’s £16.10 per pair of elastic hosiery. In Wales no charge.
    Value for Money: Council Tax for band B in Oxford £1231 in Cardiff £862
    I would add the rate of unemployment is lower in Wales than that in England, I wonder why Mr Jones did not point that out.

    • No Good Boyo

      A worthwhile point. Nonetheless, I think Mr Jones makes a fair point.

      In the first place, things like free prescriptions aren’t really free. We’re being taxed to cover the expense. It’s just we’re charged in advance, rather than at the point of delivery, and people who need little medical treatment are forced to subsidise those who need a great deal of it.

      Ditto, tuition fees. I’m not entirely sure why I, who finished his academic career in 1995, am required to fund students today.

      Is the unemployment rate, overall, genuinely higher in England? I wouldn’t know, but I find that hard to believe. In any case, I’ll bet the unemployment rate in Gurnos is higher than it is in Reading. In fact, last summer, I was, as a businessman, talking to a couple of business people from Reading. They assured me that there was no recession in Reading. That was news to me. I was well aware that the recession was still alive and kicking in Wales.

      But I would trade free prescriptions for a prefer a decent education system any day. My children are still young, but I worry that, much though I love Wales, and I’d be loath to part with the Aber valley that I am privileged to live in, I wonder if we might have to leave all this and move to England simply so our girls can get a reasonable education!

      • Mynydd

        I didn’t say prescriptions are free I quoted the prescription charges made in England and Wales.
        I made no comment as to tuition fees being good, bad or fair, I compared to fees charged to English and Welsh students
        The latest unemployment overall figure for England is 6.9% for Wales it’s 6.7%. I am not saying all parts of Wales are lower than all parts of England.
        With respect to moving to England simply so your girls can get a reasonable education, that’s up to you, but there are very bad schools in England, so you could be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

  • Smithersjones2013

    Things look bleak under a Labour Government. However,when Cameron in the Telegraph today brazenly flaunting the he is intent on continuing to derelict his primary duties as leader of the government in protecting the nation from external threats by refusing to control our borders what choice have we?

    The Tories are not prepared to do the job that the voters expect of them so by default they are not suitable fot the job and will lose the election as a result. That leaves Labour as the most likely winner by default. What can you do though when the Tories refuse point blank to do the job? What Idiot employs someone who says “I’m not going to do the job properly”?

  • No Good Boyo

    The worst part of it is that there’s absolutely nothing we can do about it. Given that the Welsh Assembly was created by a Labour government, it goes without saying they created an electoral system in which there was no realistic prospect of Labour losing control. The problem is that, for so many people in Wales, voting Labour is practically a religious rite.

    • Andy

      Yes, the Fascist Labour Party gerrymander every electoral system.

      • No Good Boyo

        Has it occurred to you that casually abusing the Labour party as “fascist” not only makes you look like a nutter, but also minimizes the excesses of genuinely fascist governments? Are you seriously comparing Tony Blair to Mussolini?

        • Mynydd

          A good reply, unfortunately there are many like him.

        • Andy

          Socialist = Fascist. Fascist = Socialist. And maybe Blair had more in common with Mussolini than you care to admit.

    • Mynydd

      At present Labour have 30 AMs other parties have 30 AMs so there is a realistic prospect of Labour losing control. With respect to the electoral system, for the Assembly it is the ‘Additional Member System’. Under this system each registered voter gets two votes. The first is for a local constituency member, the second is to elect a regional member. This system is designed to help smaller parties such as the Conservatives. By the way you only get one for MPs.

      • No Good Boyo

        Can’t say I know enough to be able to comment, but it sounds reasonable.

        That much said, how strong is the support for other parties, composted to the almost universal support in some Labour seats?

        For example (I’m sorry to say that I don’t take a string enough interest in Welsh politics to be aware of voting proportions), Caerphilly’s MP enjoys a majority larger than the total votes cast for all the other parties combined. If there were a twenty percent swing against Labour, so that the Labour party were left with just a handful of seats in the Commons, Caerphilly would be one of them.

        If the other parties rely on questionable support, whereas Labour enjoys rock-solid support in a significant number of constituencies, Labour’s arrangement wouldperhapsappear less magnanimous than meets the eye.

        • Andy

          If you block the seat of Rhondda with any one of its neighbours you still do not get an electoral role the same size as the Isle of Wight. Its called gerrymandering.

          • jesseventura2

            Cottager of Rhondda Bryant voted out?

  • colliemum

    Perhaps it’s all a cunning plan by Welsh Labour – this way, they can keep Wales free from too many immigrants, After all, it’s Wales for the Welsh, innit.

  • David J Noble

    so where have they spent the money ?

    • dado_trunking

      Where does annual state debt of the Broon years which was £40bn approx pa but is now £120bn pa go, you mean?

      • Andy

        The Deficit was £150bn when the Coalition can to office. It is slowly coming down – too slowly in my opinion.

  • Jac o’ the North

    Due to Wales’ poverty Labour has received billions from the EU which, instead of being spent on infrastructure, training, investment, has been ploughed into the Third Sector. Which does nothing but celebrate poverty . . . and provide sinecures for Labour members and supporters.

    The truth is that Labour in Wales prefers poverty and backwardness. This is then blamed on ‘Them wicked Tories up in London’ and Labour gets re-elected. At every election – even Welsh Assembly and European elections – Welsh voters are urged to “send a message to London”. By blaming the Conservatives for everything (even when Labour was in power in London!), Labour turns every election into a two-horse race, with one of the horses being one that most Welsh will never back. This tactic also marginalises Plaid Cymru and avoids having to focus on Labour’s record in Wales. It could even be that the Conservative Party, accepting Wales is a lost cause, is prepared to see Labour carry the Unionist banner rather than have the situation in Scotland replicated.

    But this situation can’t go on for ever. Wales is in such a mess that even the most diehard Labour voters are starting to lose faith. When you live in an area – such as the Heads of the Valleys – that makes Romania look wealthy, then blind faith and fear of the Tories are no longer enough. For if Labour continues to run Wales it’s only a matter of time before the Romanian government complains about Welsh beggars on the streets of Bucharest. Devolution, under Labour, has been a disaster for Wales.

    • No Good Boyo

      That’s not entirely true. New roads and by-passes have been built, such as the four-lane A40 by-pass around Brecon, greatly shortening the journey time and relieving the horrendous congestion. The A470 that provides the principle north-south link in Wales is currently being upgraded through a massive project through the heart of Wales. The A5 to Pembrokeshire is also being upgraded through another large project around St Clear’s.

      The Cardiff Bay redevelopment, costing untold billions, has been a great success, deriving good publicity with the new opera house, the attractions, the posh hotels and restaurants, and the frequent events. Almost certainly, this has raised Wales’ profile and attracted international investment.

      There’s been much infrastructure built, with large office blocks going up not only in Cardiff Bay, but in Callaghan Square, Cardiff, in Tredomen Park in Ystrad Mynach, and most of them are rented out. It is remarkable the way the skyline of Cardiff has changed in the last 15 years. I remember how the uninspiring Marriott hotel, back in the late nineties stood out as one of the tallest buildings in the city, surrounded as it was by derelict buildings. Now, the dereliction is all gone, replaced by tower blocks everywhere that make the Marriott’s 15 storeys a relative tiddler.

      But yes, much is being wasted. For example, in the Adamsdown Square district of Cardiff, the entire pavement’s concrete slabs was ripped up and replaced with bricks. Why, I can’t say. There was nothing much wrong with the paving slabs, but it seems somebody with access to EU money thought the pavement would look prettier with bricks. The neighbourhood is still filled with thieves, hookers, druggies and thugs — but hey, at least after you’ve been stabbed, you can spend your last few moments of life admiring the lovely pavement that you collapse onto.

      • Jac o’ the North

        Your answer seems more concerned with the Cardiff skyline than with the country I was talking about.

        • No Good Boyo

          Cardiff is the part of Wales that I’m most familiar with. It’s where I’m from, and if I write about the pavements of Adamsdown, that’s because I’m very familiar with Adamsdown. And if they’re replacing pavements in Adamsdown, I imagine they’re probably doing to in Aberystwyth and Llandudno also.

          That much said, Cardiff is a part of Wales, last time I looked. Actually, it’s the biggest city in Wales, and the major driver of the Welsh economy. If the Welsh Assembly’s priority is on Cardiff’s development, there a reasons for that.

          I’m not too clear why you would expect to exclude Cardiff from an assessment of Wales. Would you comment on conditions in England, not counting London? Or France, ignoring Paris?

          So what part of Wales do you know?

          • Wessex Man

            most of it and it’s about time you Welsh started paying your way!

            • No Good Boyo

              Well done. Do you feel better now you’ve got that off your chest?

              Would you have a problem with Liverpudlians, or Corby residents, requiring support? Why pick on people who live in the west of the UK? Perhaps you’d like England to be reduced to London and the home counties, less Peckham, Hackney, and a few other places?

              Do you think Wales might have less of a problem if the English didn’t keep recruiting all our best minds? The number of times I’ve been to career fairs to see some stand saying ” We’re wonderful! Move to Dunstable and work for us!”

              Much the same could be said of the third world. The last time I required treatment in an English hospital,the nurse was from Zambia. Lovely chap though he was, and a terrific advisement for the NHS, I couldn’t help thinking that, surely, Zambia’s need its greater than ours.

              It’s a bit rich actively recruiting or best people, and then whining that we need support. There’s a cost to everything. Your economy prospers because you get some bloody good Welsh brains. The cost is that you have to support the Welsh economy that you’ve denuded of ability. You’re not allowed to whinge about it.

              • Andy

                And like the Scots we want you Welsh to stop interfering in English affairs. We want our devolution so we can have policies we want not what you lot think we should have.

                • No Good Boyo

                  I couldn’t agree more. I suspect most Welsh would be entirely comfortable with England having its own devolved legislature. I truly don’t understand why that hasn’t happened yet. Seems entirely logical, consistent and fair to me.

                • Andy

                  And the reason we weren’t given Devolution in 1997 ? Because the Fascist Labour Party would lose control of England without its Scottish and Welsh bully boys.

                • No Good Boyo


                • Mynydd

                  Your ‘Fascist Labour Party’ proposed referendums for regional assemblies in England. If I remember correctly only the North East held one and voted against, all other regions refused to hold a referendum. Of course in the four years the Conservatives have been in power they have done nothing on this matter.

                • Andy

                  We don’t want your stupid ‘regional assemblies’: we want our own Parliament with exactly the same devolved powers as in Scotland. You can shove the regional assemblies where the sun don’t shine.

                • No Good Boyo

                  In other words, you’d like an English regional assembly.

          • Jac o’ the North

            I wasn’t expecting you to “exclude Cardiff from an assessment of Wales” but your comment was mainly about Cardiff, which accounted for 11.3% of Wales’ population at the 2011 census. Even so, it served the purpose of highlighting one of the major reasons so many other parts of Wales are struggling – too much investment in Cardiff.

            Describing Cardiff as “the major driver of the Welsh economy” is – though you obviously don’t realise it – the description of a problem. It’s as valid as saying that the wealth accumulated in London benefits Yorkshire or Cornwall; it’s just self-serving nonsense. Cardiff, like London, uses its capital status for its own selfish ends.

            As for which part of Wales I know . . . by blood, birth, upbringing and inclination I am a Jack, but for over 30 years I’ve lived in western Meirionnydd. But I know every part of Wales. That’s why I can say what I say – because I know Wales much, much better than you, for whom ‘Wales’ = Cardiff.

            • No Good Boyo


              In the first place, my comment mentioned: Brecon, the heart of Wales, St Clear’s, Ystrad Mynach and Caerphilly. Hardly “mainly about Cardiff!” Although please forgive me if I chose to express my opinion based upon what I’m most familiar with, rather than following an exhaustive research of the entire nation.

              Actually, I’m pretty familiar with Wales as a whole. I may be from Cardiff originally, live in Abertridwr, and operate from an office in Tredomen, but I run a business which takes me all over Wales. So far as I recall, I’ve visited Llandudno, Rhuddlan, Bodelwyddan, Pwllheli, Brecon, Pembroke, Mountain Ash and Porth since January. What parts of Wales have been graced by your presence in the last five months, as a matter of interest — you know, that part of Wales that you know much, much better than me?

              In the second place, you know bugger all about economics, clearly. Wealth accumulated in London certainly does benefit Yorkshire. Who buys Yorkshire’s products? Where do tourists, spending money to spare in Yorkshire’s tourist attractions, come from? When a Yorkshire farmer sells a lamb, or a cow’s milk, where does it get consumed, given that three-fifths of the UK’s population, and three-quarters of England’s population, lives in London and the home counties?

              I look at Pontypridd, Caerphilly, Penarth, and their vast commuter estates. Where do all those people work, and receive their income from? Not Caerphilly and Ponty, that’s for certain! There’s a limit to the number of people that Glanmor’s bakery on Cardiff Road, Caerphilly, can give jobs to!

              • Flintshire Ian

                You might have noticed on your travels that very little “investment” takes place in the north which is why the devolved administration is known as SWAG by many around here – South Wales Assembly Government

                • No Good Boyo

                  That’s a lovely arts and conference centre you’ve got in Llandudno; Venue Cymru. Must have cost quite a bit. All came out of Llandudno’s arts and entertainment budget, did it?

                • Flintshire Ian

                  Venue Cymru in Llandudno has been around a lot longer than the South Wales Assembly. It’s most recent upgradings carry the ubiquitous blue badge of the EU, which is recycled UK tax payer funding. Its running costs are subsidised by the council tax payers of Conwy County Borough Council.
                  Pretty well all of the infrastructure spending in Wales goes on in the south to shore up the local Labour vote – M4 upgrade, railway line electrification, etc.

                • No Good Boyo

                  Yes, EU funding (which is what this thread is about), as dispensed by the South Wales Assembly Government that never gives the north anything.

                  You should drive the A470 some time. There’s a massive series of long-term upgrading projects between Machynlleth and Llanrwst. That’s Plaid country, isn’t it?

                • Flintshire Ian

                  I thought that the thread was about what the UK would look like under Miliband?
                  My first thought on reading your post (and my second, and my third) was who would ever want to travel between Machynlleth and Llanrwst? Even if a few crumbs have to be thrown to Plaid areas in the west in case of a coalition.
                  Electrification of the north Wales coast main rail line and upgrading the A494 at Aston Hill between Queensferry and Buckley would have been better use of the money. The Aston Hill improvement came close once before but the SWAG used a local nimby group as an excuse to steal the money back for the M4.

              • Jac o’ the North

                Where were you educated! The word is ‘bollocks’.

                • No Good Boyo

                  Didn’t think the moderators would allow it.

          • Conway

            And if they’re replacing pavements in Adamsdown, I imagine they’re probably doing to in Aberystwyth and Llandudno also.” I doubt they’re replacig them in Llandudno. That part of Wales doesn’t seem to get much investment.

            • No Good Boyo

              Who paid for Venue Cymru’s construction? I doubt it comes within Llandudno council’s budget. When I was there in January, it was housing two trade shows and a major West End musical simultaneously. I’d be grateful, if I were you.

              • Jac o’ the North

                Llandudno’s town centre is certainly attractive, I love it, but it’s not historic. It was laid out by the Mostyn family in the 19th century,. It’s a new town.

  • Daviejohn

    Failing on housing; failing on education; failing on health; failing on value for money for hard-working people and their families.

    If you were a Labour voter this should want to make you run from them as fast as you can, Wales…Look on this and weep.

  • vvputout

    Very good article.

    This is why we must proceed with securing an English Assembly. This process should be put in motion as soon as the result of the Scottish referendum is known.

  • The Laughing Cavalier

    So, expenditure is cut all round and the taxes have gone up. where did the money go?

  • JabbaTheCat

    Time to dig out Twin Town and give it another viewing…

  • Colin56

    Who cares? Certainly we in England shouldn’t care. All these matters are devolved to the ‘Welsh Assembly Government’ and therefore entirely their responsibility, whether they make a mess of it or not. It’s beyond parody that we still have a ‘Secretary of state for Wales’ in Whitehall, with cabinet seat, ministerial limo and six-figure salary (+ expenses, generous no doubt and all funded by the English taxpayer). He certainly can’t have very much to do all day.
    Ideally, a Yes vote for independence in Scotland would be quickly followed by independence for Wales; so that the UK could become a loose federation of independent nations, self-governing, self-taxing, with separate currencies and financial systems, with maybe some co-operation on matters such as defence where there can be shown to be a shred of common interest. Apart from that, if the Welsh want to elect a government that can’t run a whelk stall, why should it concern us any more than what any other government does?

  • ohforheavensake

    If they’re doing that badly, how come you lot aren’t doing better?

    • Colin56

      Because we’ve got a pathetic ‘coalition’ government apparently hell-bent on tearing itself apart, ‘run’ by a couple of Tory toffs once memorably described as ‘not knowing the price of milk’. Actually, we are doing a bit better – but not much – on health and education, but not very well on many other measures. And last week they had the temerity to suggest that the ‘Great Recession’ is over. Ha! just shows that the Tory Toffs live on a different planet to the rest of us ….

  • jesseventura2

    Just check out the number of council house built under Heath Thatcher Major and that of Tony the phony Blair and Gordon the clown Brown?

    • 2trueblue

      Why don’t you just tell us? I am sure that Bliar/Brown built less, but go on tell us.

      • jesseventura2

        Available online brother.

  • jesseventura2

    Ron Jones the pervert badger watcher got the Welsh assembly of Rhodri and the fat ladies through on the thinnest of debatable margins.

  • jesseventura2

    No muslim grooming gangs FGM cutters honor killers prosecuted in Welsh labour council areas?

    • Holly

      Or decent public services by the sound of it.
      Maybe the things you mention are just as rife as they are in other parts of the UK, but it takes Labour being voted out of office, for them to be dealt with.
      I don’t remember hearing about the grooming gangs until recently, and Labour were in government when it was happening, so maybe it is happening in Wales, it just hasn’t been taken seriously like it was for years here in England.
      I do seem to have heard a bit about non-muslim child gropers down in Wales though, or is that somehow different in your mind?

      • TheVoiceofReasonII

        Of course it’s different when a non-Muslim engages in kiddy-fiddling! They’re not bleeding immigrants!

      • jesseventura2

        No not on the scale of islamic vermin for whom this is normal.

    • Mynydd

      Councils not matter the party in control are not responsible for prosecuting, grooming gangs, FGM cutters, honour killers, or any other crime, it’s down to the police. Grow up.

      • jesseventura2

        How many muslim dogs caught in Welsh labour run areas??
        You think these vermin are only doing this in England?
        Cardiff muslim taxi drivers an filthy kebab shop workers?

  • 2trueblue

    Spot on. They had 13yrs. ‘managing’ the UK in total, headed up by Bliar, assisted by Brown, Balls, Millipede x 2, Cooper, Burnham, to mention a few, and look what they actually did. They spent everything and grew our debt, child poverty (in a so called time of plenty) youth unemployment, teenage pregnancy numbers, immigration, to name a few.
    They failed to grow our housing stock, our infrastructure, fuel/energy security, proper standards in education and health provision, clean up the expenses mess.

  • @PhilKean1

    Real Conservatives understand that things have to reach rock-bottom before they can start to improve.

    * Labour are a danger to the British people. But they CAN be removed at General Elections.

    * The EU is a FAR greater danger to the British people. They can NOT be removed at General Elections.

    This is why we have to send a message telling Britain’s political class that we will no longer sit quietly while they consign us to living under an EU dictatorship modelled on the Chinese one-party-state system.

    Even if that means letting Labour in by default.

    • Hello

      “Real Conservatives understand that things have to reach rock-bottom before they can start to improve.”

      That’s the absolute opposite of the truth. Real Conservatives do everything they can to avoid “rock-bottom”.

      • @PhilKean1

        Err, yes, when they are in control of events.

        Earth to “Hello” – they are not currently in control of events, and neither are the rest of the British population.

        This is why we must use all means to break the Liberal-left’s domination of British politics.

        Of course, there is still time for David Cameron to come to hisn senses and produce a manifesto that will unite all Conservatives and win the overwhelming backing of the British people. But don’t hold your breath.

        I think he’d rather lose the election to Labour than do what is necessary to restore British democracy and the Sovereignty of Westminster.

        • Hello

          That’s just left-wing idealism, not conservative pragmatism. The ideological battles of the 80s and 90s are over, so you need some new cause to attach yourself to, and to blow out of proportion. It’s very left-wing to imagine that there is some fundamental injustice in the world, and your place is to fight it.

          What you’re hankering for is radical change, I don’t see how you can call that conservatism with a straight face. You’re just the new idealists, offering something new to distract the working classes, and make yourselves feel better.

          • @PhilKean1

            I am the most non-ideological person you will ever meet.

            I am a true-blue, some say, to the right of Genghis Tory. Yet –

            (1) – I oppose fox hunting and other barbaric, outdated rituals.
            (2) – I DO believe in immigration. But immigration in a controlled way using the visa system employed by other countries.
            (3) – I do believe in a free NHS – running alongside a private system that allows tax relief – a measure that would save taxpayers billions per annum.

            However, it seems that you object to the ONLY reason I am fighting those who want to condemn us to living under EU dictatorship : to restore the British peoples’ right to decide which politicians make the laws they live by.

            • Hello

              You’re quite evidently an ideological person. All your posts are structured into little bullet points list that you seem to think constitute some sort of logical argument, but really they’re just lists of things you happen to dislike.

              You’re certainly not true blue. I think the measure of a “true blue” is the propensity to accept things you don’t like, to let realism get the better of you.

              So, relax, and stop using capital letters so much.

              • @PhilKean1

                To accept things that are damaging to the national interest? The new – if you like – compromising in 21st century British politics?

                I can detect already that your main objection to my posts is my opposition to the EU.
                I have seen many times before people who are unable to argue against my argument extending the scope to include areas where they feel they may score some points.

                Never mind.

                • Hello

                  Except that my posts have made quite clear that what I object to is your method rather than your madness.

                  Never mind.

                • Colonel Mustard

                  How is fox hunting damaging to the national interest? The consequences of the ban have not been good for wildlife and conservation.

                  It is typical of the bleeding heart hypocrisy that there is no real outrage over halal slaughter but the hunting of vermin is fretted over.

                  As long as UAF indulge their barbaric, outdated rituals from the days of student protests I shall support fox hunting.

            • Simon Delancey

              A serious question for you, Phil – why immigration, rather than some form of “guest worker” system (where foreign workers would have no right to remain)?

              • @PhilKean1

                Hi, Simon.

                Maybe I didn’t explain myself properly. Apologies.

                Immigration in a controlled way, but only for people who have something to offer. And an annual quota of asylum seekers – unlike the open door immigration we have now.

                However, anyone coming here to work does NOT need to be given citizenship.
                They can work here on time-limited visas and then return home after they finish their contract, or their visa expires.

                I hope that is clearer.

                • Simon Delancey

                  Sorry, Phil. I see now that you did indeed mention using the visa system… my fault entirely.

            • Kennybhoy

              “I am the most non-ideological person you will ever meet.

              I am a true-blue, some say, to the right of Genghis Tory.”

              You do know that your second sentence flatly contradicts the first…?

          • Kennybhoy

            Oh weel said! :-)

        • vvputout

          By this I assume you mean a manifesto drafted by UKIP. Well, that should split the party.

          • @PhilKean1

            I believe there was a way to unite the party. However, that chance has been sabotaged since Cameron’s backbenchers irresponsibly ceased-fire – on Cameron’s terms – in order to give him and the EU the timer they need to consolidate Britain’s position within economic and political union.

            The prognosis comes down to one word for what was once the Tory party – “spilt”.

        • Kennybhoy

          “This is why we must use all means to break the Liberal-left’s domination of British politics.”

          Define “we” and “all means”? And how precisely do you think that the Liberal-left came to dominate British politics?

          “…unite all Conservatives and win the overwhelming backing of the British people.”

          Define “overwhelming backing” and ,indeed, “British people”?

          And just so I understand you. You think there is some silent majority out there who agree with you but care so little about our country that they haven’t voted in elections since, say, 1997?

          • Andy

            ‘Liberal-Left’ is an oxymoron. The Left are anything BUT Liberal. They are mostly totalitarian Fascists.

      • Kennybhoy

        Consider yersel’ man-hugged! :-)

    • 2trueblue

      Wales present us with the same problem in Westminster as the Scots do, their MPs are allowed to vote in matters pertaining to England, and also to the UK. This should not be so. Perhaps we could free ourselves of that set of problems and go from there.

      • @PhilKean1

        I find it hard to prioritise anything other than extricating Britain from EU domination.

        • 2trueblue

          England is some 80% of the UK, so maybe one small step for England perhaps, and then……… it is the one thing the English are denied, their right to be English and to express it.

          • Wessex Man

            at last, two people who are saying the same as me, let’s declare independence!

            • 2trueblue

              Wouldn’t it be wonderful!

        • vvputout

          More important is securing an English Assembly as part of the process of devo-max which must follow on from the Scots’ rejection of independence.

          • Andy

            Not an ‘Assembly’: we want a Parliament with exactly the same powers as that in Scotland.

    • Liberty

      The Tory problem is the Labour measures that cannot be undone by Tories but leave a bigger constituency for Labour. The post-war Labour government left nationalised industries with cushy jobs for voters and legal immunities for unions that would bring the nation to a standstill if ended. Thatcher could undo them because Labour were unelectable. Heath went along with socialists because he thought it the only way. The last Labour government gerrymandered by mass immigration which forces the current government to accommodate them – they cannot do anything radical because of the LDs.

      • @PhilKean1

        But Conservatives aren’t trying to undo Labour’s damage.

        I mean, Cameron thought he had to make his party Britain’s 3rd Socialist force to stand any chance of ever getting elected.

        If we had real Conservatives in Government, not Liberals masquerading as Tories, it would be possible to undo a lot of Labour’s damage.

        Sadly, however, we have Cameron’s party quite often doing Labour’s work for them.

        • Kennybhoy

          Did you actually read what Liberty wrote?

          • Wessex Man

            Yes I did and what I really want to know is what all these comments have got to do with the shocking state that Wales is in? It will be us the poor b***** English who will have to pick up the pieces yet again and pay for them to scream more and more abuse at us!

            Can’t we persuade them to hold a referendum on their ‘independence’ and not tell them they would have to pay their way and not live on our backs!

    • Kennybhoy

      “Real Conservatives understand that things have to reach rock-bottom before they can start to improve.”


      “Even if that means letting Labour in by default.”

      Once again, props for the honesty here, but just what do you think “rock-bottom” looks like?

      • Colonel Mustard

        “…what do you think “rock-bottom” looks like?”

        The financial year 2012-13 if Gordon Brown had won the 2010 election.

  • Colonel Mustard

    One of the more slippery aspects of devolution was to allow parties in Westminster – and governments in Westminster – to abrogate responsibility for what those parties do with devolved powers. I remember watching Hain some years ago attempt to defend the disparity in tuition fees (conveniently forgotten when his party bleat about ‘one nation’) by citing devolved powers as though it had nothing to do with him.

    That makes a mockery of their trumpeted “equality and fairness”. They are weasels, all of them. And the only way to fire a very big rocket up their collective backside is to vote UKIP. It doesn’t matter what UKIP stand for. What is important is only that UKIP is not part of the House of Commons complacent, cosy conspiracy against the people. The ‘I’ in Europe was meant to stand for independence from Europe. It doesn’t any more. It stands for independence from the weasels in Westminster who have sold this country down the river.

    • dalai guevara

      The Thames is the boundary to the South of the Square Mile.

      • Colonel Mustard

        Jolly good.

      • 2trueblue

        Why don’t you just tell us?

    • vvputout

      Vote UKIP = vote Labour = no referendum on EU membership and = a UK on the Welsh and French model.

      • Alexsandr


      • Colonel Mustard

        Jolly good.

      • Ooh!MePurse!

        Spot on. Voting Ukip will lead to a Labour government and national disaster. Makes Ukip voters traitors.

    • Kennybhoy

      “It doesn’t matter what UKIP stand for.”

      Props for yer honesty…

    • Jolly Roger

      Indeed it does matter what UKIP stand for, Mr Forage has make his views quite plain, especially on Europe.
      The Prime Minister does not want Britain to leave the European Union, he wants desperately to re-negotiate our membership to get a better deal for Britain, and he has already begun that, (especially the reduction in our annual contributions.)
      Only then will he put it before the people in a referendum, the that is the correct way to go, the Democratic way, not Nigel’s venomous bluster.
      Incidentally, I didn’t realize there was an ‘I’ in Europe, at least there wasn’t when I went to school.

  • dalai guevara

    Wanna know how to manage decline and further centralise power?
    Vote Thatcherite UKIP.

    • Hexhamgeezer

      Better to centralise in London than Brussels. Any chance of dealing with even a single point as made above?

    • Liberty

      Do you mean that a strong showing by ‘Thatcherite UKIP’ will let in Labour and THEY will [mis]manage decline and further centralise power?

      • dalai guevara

        I would suggest you familiarise yourself with the political jargon, its semantics and where the terminology used orginated from. Then you might understand and perhaps refrain from issuing further misrepresenting innuendo.

        • Rhoda Klapp8

          Wanna rephrase that so it can be understood?

          • Inverted Meniscus

            Impossible. Unintelligible pointless socialist nutter gibberish is his native tongue.

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