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If Britain has a culture war, it’s the euro-enthusiasts who started it, not Ukip

30 May 2014

Following last week’s Purple Revolution in which the pro-democracy Faragist rebels liberated Britain from the hated pro-EUSSR LibLabCon stooges (at least this is the version I’m telling my kids to repeat to their teachers), a number of people have written about what appears to be the opening of a ‘culture war’ in Britain.

Andrew Sullivan talks about ‘blue Europe and red Europe’ in the sense of America’s blue and red states, and sees Ukip as representing the latter just as the Republican Party does conservative, left-behind America. I think there’s some truth in that.

Dan Hannan, in true conservative style, clutching doom from victory, has suggested that the rise of Ukip is actually a bad thing for the Eurosceptic cause, latching the subject onto the divisive issue of immigration. The figures do bear this out, as support for the EU is rising just as Nigel’s Army has swept the country.

Our own Nick Cohen has expanded on this, pointing out that while supporting Sir James Goldsmith’s Referendum Party in 1997 entailed signing up for national sovereignty and nothing else, Ukip has now started a culture war that makes it very hard for moderately Eurosceptic liberals like him to do anything but side with the federalists.

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It’s certainly true that Ukip has evolved from its original function of pure Euroscepticism. Its first leader, Alan Sked, was a Liberal, and repeatedly turns up in the media to denounce the party (I like James Delingpole’s comment that ‘Interviewing Alan Sked to find out what he thinks of UKIP is like digging up Syd Barrett to find out where Floyd went wrong post Dark Side.’)

Ukip has grown out of public frustration that those in a position of power have vastly different worldviews to people like them, and it has taken this role because European unity is an intrinsic part of that gulf. There aren’t many ideas out there that are more elitist than the European project; in Britain, at least, it was brought about by a miniscule number of politicians and civil servants who blatantly lied to the public about its true purpose, led by history’s greatest monster, Edward Heath.

Many people are prepared to go along with it because they like the freedom of movement and are persuaded by the economic arguments, but it would be untrue to suggest the motives of Britain’s federalists were entirely or even mostly economic – it’s driven by cultural factors, in particular opposition towards old-style nationalism, Little Englanders, and shire Tories, with a fair amount of snobbery thrown in. Remember this Independent editorial from 1992?

Cameroon Conservatism took this elite cultural snobbery to extremes. As Douglas Murray notes in this week’s magazine. David Cameron mocked Ukip sympathisers as ‘fruit cakes, loonies and closet racists’, and made clear that he would do without their support. Instead he pursued mythical new customers whose politics were determined by Gaia and gay marriage. Cameron’s efforts have been fruitless (even self-destructive) precisely because we don’t do culture wars in Britain – something many people are proud of, because at the very least we don’t have the extremism found both on America’s Left and Right. But it does mean that, without opposition or checks and balances, and without having to prove its ideas, social liberalism (to which the Tory Party now subscribes) has evolved at breakneck speed.

Nigel Farage and Ukip were quick to see the gap in the market for a culturally conservative opposition – critical of sexual liberation, political correctness, the green agenda and, above all, mass immigration. On top of this, Ukip recognised that with the expansion of the European Union eastwards and the economic collapse of southern Europe the issues of mass immigration and the European Union cannot be separated, whatever David Cameron would like to think.

Whether Ukip cheers or horrifies you, there are perfectly logical reasons for its growth and evolution. And if Europe has become part of a British culture war that many would rather it stayed out of, then it is a war that the federalists helped to start.

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Show comments
  • pajeroexceed

    Don’t bother approving my previous blog. shove it under the mat,

  • pajeroexceed

    Sadly, It all ends quite dramatically This EU/Immigration/ issue is going to become one of THE most astonishing and distructive

  • Full Name

    Looks like the some in the media are slowly coalescing the various factors leading up to UKIP. Still not quite there but a little improved.

    >”Dan Hannan, in true conservative style, clutching doom from victory, has suggested that the rise of Ukip is actually a bad thing for the Eurosceptic cause, latching the subject onto the divisive issue of immigration. The figures do bear this out, as support for the EU is rising just as Nigel’s Army has swept the country.”

    Dan’s ignoring the improving economic situation in the UK with less attribution of being in the EU, which still is a drag on our economy btw. You can plot a graph and it corresponds quite well.

    Of course too much rhetoric on immigration is no good, but I think it’s served it’s purpose and is now a platform that the Cartel LibLabCon can now longer ignore and when they do they are seen to be choosing to lose voters and not lie so blatantly.

    For UKIP to build is to expand it’s policy base as well as provide a Brexit plan.

    Do that and any manifesto they produce with a working Brexit plan will YIELD MORE to the electorate than ANYTHING LibLabCon can possibly hope to provide while still acting as shills for their EU masters.

    Brexit (4) is the fourth horseman of the coming EU apocalypse.

  • global city

    Watching Anna Soubray on TV this morning it is clear what the fundamental problem is. The three main parties are going to find it absolutely impossible to force themselves out of the intellectual straight jacket they have constructed over the last twenty years, with regards to mass migration…. and even longer over the EU.

    Even if the brighter brains within the political establishment began now to craft a new ideological position, the likes of stupid Anna would be incapable of contextualising the new narrative.

  • MikeF

    “we don’t do culture wars in Britain.” Well the conservative right don’t but the left do and it is what they have been doing for decades now. That is the reality of the politics of ‘zero tolerance’ – not simply an antipathy to prejudice – but a relentless drive to suppress all forms of thought, speech, association and organisation that they determine they do not like.

  • global city

    The biggest (and dangerously, most successful) of the culture war weapons being used .

  • roger

    What a photo! Everything rotten in Britain from the mid-60s onwards captured in all their seedy awfulness. Supposedly different parties but joined in their morally corrupt laissez faire and elitism, disgusting.

  • Puss in Plimsolls

    Why doesn’t the weirdo on the left cut his hair? And looking at the three: was that the height of British manhood in the 70s? No wonder people sought refuge in the glamour of James Bond!

  • Bill_der_Berg

    The Lib Dems may well go the way of the Dog Lovers’ Party, which was created to contest an election in Jeremy Thorpe’s constituency. The DLP candidate campaigned under the slogan ‘Rinka will be avenged’.

    The pity is that the party is no longer around when there is still work for it to do. The Independent has reported the appearance in an East London Park of a
    provocative Islamic sign that says ‘Do not walk your dog here! Muslims don’t like dogs’.

    PC Plod is on the case.

  • artemis in france

    As good a dissection of the current state of British politics as I’ve read for a while, Ed. Unfortunately it only tells half the story as the lefties aren’t included in your analysis, but as UKIP seem to be attracting some of them too, perhaps the same applies. The latest report from Sheffield certainly will be more grist to the UKIP mill.

    • Porphyrogenitos

      What report from Sheffield might that be?

      • Bill_der_Berg

        This was in today’s newspaper.

        “The new face of racial tension: As ex-Home Secretary David Blunkett warns of clashes between Roma and locals in Sheffield, the bitter irony is that the previous generation of immigrants are angriest

        Page Hall in Sheffield is increasingly a centre of tension over immigration Britons, Pakistanis, Yemenis and others object to Eastern European arrivals

        Earlier this month fight between Yemeni and Roma erupted into mass brawl

        Mr Blunkett has called for tough police action to control the tensions”.

        • Wessex Man

          Exactly the same is happening in Bristol.

          • Bill_der_Berg

            I did not know that Bristol had become that vibrant.

  • Puss in Plimsolls

    You don’t do freedom like we do, either.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    “Jeremy Thorpe, Edward Heath and Roy Jenkins”
    What do these three jokers have in common? Homosexual, paedophile, serial child murderer… Can`t quite put my finger on it.

  • Ed_Burroughs

    Nearly, Ed, but not quite re social conservatism.

    I support the rights of black gay Romanian drug dealers to defend their crack factories with assault rifles. Yet I vote for UKIP.

    We are many We are legion.

  • global city

    Most British people do not want to live in a politically ideologically constructed state. That has been evident by our refusal to vote in dogma laden parties ever.

    As a result of the EU we now have Communists and real Fascists (as opposed to the completely fictitious ones the British Left have been fighting here) helping to shape our destiny.

    The whole EU must be restricted to the fundamental issues of the law, democracy and independence… everything else is a sub-division of one of these issues. If only UKIP could get off the immigrant stuff now and concentrate on these issues?

  • Smithersjones2013

    The figures do bear this out, as support for the EU is rising just as Nigel’s Army has swept the country.

    No they don’t because analysis of polls will tell you it is not UKIP supporters who are wanting to remain entangled with the EU but those of other parties and not least the Tories told by David Cameron that he can do a deal that will make them happy and remain in the EU. Put that next to the disappearance of news about the Euro crisis and its unsurprising that pro EU membership numbers have risen.

    Once again Tories are trying to blame UKIP for David Cameron’s mendacity. when in reality all it is is mjore disingenuous spin. Hannan should be ashamed of himself putting party before his beliefs and his country!

  • wrinkledweasel

    Jeremy Thorpe, Edward Heath and Roy Jenkins. Looking for fun and feeling pervy.

  • Bill_der_Berg

    The Independent has revealed what lies behind the progressive image of the coalition partners.

    “Hundreds of thousands of Britain’s poorest people are being targeted by private debt collectors hired by the Government after their tax credits were overpaid because of errors made by HMRC”.

  • mightymark

    “led by history’s greatest monster, Edward Heath.”

    Of course. Who could deny that Ted was worse than

    G Khan
    A Hitler
    J Stalin
    P Pot
    M Tse Tung, not to mention

    Jack the Ripper
    Vlad the Impaler – well, perhaps you get the idea

    Or perhaps not. Here we have a respectable Spectator journo can writing this twaddle and getting very little disagreement. Yes Ed – of course it is “cultural”, because it sure ain’t intellectual. Or maybe, Ed, you are going to tell me I am a miserable sod for missing your superbly well hidden irony.

    • Ed West

      its a Simpsons-derived joke applied to ineffective but not evil leaders (originally Jimmy Carter). So yes ironic. Dont know if superbly well-hidden or not.

      • Wessex Man

        Well if you aren’t I will!

    • terence patrick hewett

      Actually all of the above did less damage to this country than that troika of t*rds.

  • HookesLaw

    Mr West exceeds even himself in his crass stupidity.
    But to say ukip no longer concerns itsself with europe is correct and Hannan is right about it being a drag on euroscepticism.
    Ukip is peddling cheap hatred; it does not need to ban ex members of theBNP – future and potential members can join instead.
    They join in a hatred against anyone and anything, its always somone or something else’s fault. Blacks browns muslims gays Poles. Ukranians of course. Not Putin, he is a saint and genius.
    Ukip can be the official home for sad bigots. If Farage is ever short of funds he can charge the public sixpence to come and stare at them.

    • Rhoda Klapp8


      • Wessex Man

        his pants are on fire!

    • Bill_der_Berg

      Perhaps it’s just as well that Labour is not a party of hate. The carnage in Iraq is bad enough as things are.

  • Makroon

    The morphing of the Spectator into the house magazine of the Faragistas is now complete. Ed West, despised by yer average Speccie kipper as an ignorant youth, has now become their poster-boy.
    Is this a commercial decision by the proprietors (I think so), or just more toadying by Mr Nelson ?

    • Bill_der_Berg

      Today the Spectator, tomorrow the world.

    • Wessex Man

      just scut back over to the NewStateman and close the door behind you.

    • Lucy Sky Diamonds

      They are only following where the small c’s went…..

  • english_pensioner

    Immigration isn’t a divisive issue, except among politicians, immigrants who want to bring in their family and labour intensive businesses which want cheap labour. The large majority of the remaining population want severe curbs. Even many immigrants want to “pull up the ladder behind them”!
    Most people that I’ve met would like an Australian type system, where you can only get work permits if you have a wanted skill, new residents have to put up a bond for Health treatment, pensioners have to show that they have an adequate pension and funds to buy a house, etc. And if you commit a crime, you get thrown out, more or less instantaneously!
    The present system means building more and more houses until our country is covered with concrete and a drain on the country’s financial resources even if the immigrants don’t go straight onto benefits.
    When politicians start recognising what the existing population wants, they might get support. Meanwhile UKIP is our best hope.

  • Kitty MLB

    Talk about over reaction, and trying to flog a subject to death..
    More veried threads now, for those who wish not to
    drown in a sea of suffocating political boredom.
    Purple revolution. I am politically sympathtic to UKIP
    and admire some of their ideals but honsestly.
    General elections are a different kettle of chips
    to the EU elections and council seats.
    But I suppose the press,media, and political blogs
    want something to rattle about its a bit quiet at the moment.
    Oh apart from our excellent growth figures today.
    But don’t let reality get in the way, will you.

    • Wessex Man

      ah bless.

  • Wessex Man

    and don’t they loook a right bunch of chancers, I am still astonished that we lost the referendum to leave the EEC but back then there was very little scrutiny of their dreadful deeds unlike today.

  • TRAV1S

    I hear that the movie the Human Centipede was inspired by that photograph.

  • GUBU

    At least, in the accompanying photograph, Mr Thorpe has the decency to look guilty about what he’s up to.

    Although perhaps it was canicide, rather than Europe, that was weighing heavily on his mind.

    • Andy

      As I recall he was found Guilty !

      • GUBU

        As I recall, Mr Thorpe and his co-defendants were acquitted by the jury.

        However, he did not escape Scott free, pun intended. The unseemly odour of dead dog and bitten pillow hung about him ever after.

  • White Wednesday

    A useful binding together of three recent important comments from Andrew Sullivan, Dan Hannan and Nick Cohen. These follow on from an article on “the Farage Paradox” by Sunder Katwala ( also picked up at the time by Richard North (

    There is something to what Sullivan says about culture wars, not least that it explains why London appeared to be “a different country” in the euro elections.

    But the crux of the matter is that UKIP’s central purpose is to now engage in those wars on Sullivan’s ‘red’ side. And by doing so the anti-EU lobby becomes associated with all things regressive (in the eyes of the ‘blues’). Mix that astute observation into the wider electorate’s relative lack of interest in the EU issue and their penchant for sticking with the status quo and you quickly have all the ingredients for a referendum victory for ‘In’ – a complete re-run of 1975 in fact.

    That’s the issue.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Sullivan, Hannan and Cohen should probably be ignored. None have insight into UKIP and the issues at hand, from what I can see, and either openly disparage them or fail to describe them properly.

      • White Wednesday

        I think they are now much closer – it was going to happen I guess. UKIP’s challenge is to now “grow up” fast (not meant perjoratively), and to come up with & communicate a serious Brexit strategy. My fear is that the party has become an end in itself.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          No, no need to fabricate a “Brexit” strategy, that cutesy term the meeeeeeej-yuh love so. Article 50 is all that’s needed. Keep it simple.

          • White Wednesday

            It needs way more than that.

            • HookesLaw

              Not for that racist nutjob. He just wants a bigoted right wing takeover. This is why from the safety of wherever he lives he screams for an end to centrist and moderate right wing political parties.
              The nutjobs in America are screaming as loud as they can to undermine sane Republicans.

              • Wessex Man

                Yeah must be a struggle to get rid of right wing Tory councillors who advocate using a Machete to solve the immigration problem, oh hang on minute he calls himself a left wing Conservative with a small C, ah well Hooky babe , mustn’t grumble hey?

              • global city

                You really have fallen into the trap of describing the issues from within the confines set by the cultural Marxist.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              No, not so far. UKIP just won a national election, displacing the top 2 muppet parties for the first time in over a century. They seem to have disproved your assertion, then.

              Actual votes tend to carry more weight than stray opinions on the innerwebs.

          • Tony_E

            You have to convince more than 50% of the population to vote OUT. That’s why a full published Brexit strategy is necessary. Because the forces ranged against OUT are huge – and various, and very powerful, and they have very deep pockets.

            The only way to win is to present an argument that is absolutely rock solid economically and link it to the emotional pull of self determination.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …again, UKIP just disproved your theory, winning a national election for the first time in over a century. The worst thing UKIP could do right now is follow your strategy, and give out a full plan for you tribalists to attack.

              This is about freedom and liberty. Those are the watchwords, not this noncing “Brexit” you seem to be fixated on.

            • Wessex Man

              I tend to agree with you and hope that this is pushed by the parrty.

  • Ricky Strong

    The culture war started from the day we stopped listening to great men like Enoch Powell. His views on the impacts of immigration and of the European Union have come to fruition beyond anything he ever envisaged. A great man and a great loss to this country.

    • sarahsmith232

      Agree wholeheartedly with that.

  • cargill55

    Britain does not need to be in the EU.
    It is perfectly capable of being a sovereign and democratic nation , with a global embrace of 6.5 billion people.
    Instead we are in the embrace of protectionist Little Europeanism of the EU with 450 million people, most in countries rooted in fascism,communism and military dictatorship. The EU has no democratic mandate for creating a superstate and it is destroying British democracy and sovereignty , especially with the extension of Lisbon’s QMV this year.

  • Hello

    “David Cameron mocked Ukip sympathisers as ‘fruit cakes, loonies and closet racists’, and made clear that he would do without their support”

    Did he? You mean back in 2006, before Farage was leader, when Ukip were barely touching 2%, and with the caveat “mostly”? Yes, he was clearly aiming his insult at the droves of Tories that he no doubt knew would flock to Ukip in the coming years. He’s prescient like that, isn’t he?

    • the viceroy’s gin

      No, he’s a dumb socialist nutter, spewing nonsense, then as now.

    • Colonel Mustard

      No, “back in” 2012. Here is what he actually said:-

      You can listen to his very words. No “mostly” caveat there. He said “UKIP are a bunch of…”.

      Wonder what he thinks UAF are “mostly” a bunch of?

      • Hello

        That’s from 2006. That’s why the intro on that page starts “back in 2006”, and then if you actually listen to the clip instead of just telling me to, then you’ll hear the “mostly” part.

        You see, just because the article is dated November 2012 doesn’t mean the clip is from 2012. It’s one of those wondrous technology things, Colonel, where you play back a clip in, like, the future.

        • Colonel Mustard

          I duly stand corrected. Not much of a caveat though. Not much of a Prime Minister either.

          Your patronising sarcasm is, however, exemplary.

          • Hello

            Thank you. Fwends?

            • Colonel Mustard

              We have not been introduced.

              • Wessex Man

                He’s just trying to make friends because he’s a lonely Tory boy!

        • the viceroy’s gin

          It’s amusing that you Camerluvvies spend endless hours diving for garbage to spew at your hated conservative enemies, going back decades, and meanwhile your hero Call Me Dave is to be forgiven for being a crazed socialist nutter, spewing nuttery, and caught on tape doing so as party leader.

          Now you understand why you Camerluvvies are being rejected so savagely. This hypocrisy is contemptible.

        • Secular_Investor

          Yes, the original Cameron comment was in 2006.

          However the 2012 article says “A spokesman for Number 10 told LBC 97.3 nothing has been retracted and that the Prime Minister never called every single member of UKIP a racist.”

          What Cameron said was that ‘UKIP are a bunch of …….fruitcakes and loonies and closet racists”

          NOTHING HAS BEEN RETRACTED – and that is OFFICIAL from Number 10.

          • Hello

            If I said in 2005 that the Conservatives don’t have a hope of winning the general election, should I then retract that in 2011?

            Cameron, in 2006, was not referring to the state of Ukip in 2012. Why should anything be retracted simply because time marched on? We could spend an awful lot of time fruitlessly retracting things that are no longer true.

            • Wessex Man

              Like much of your party of muck, you refuse to admit that you are wrong, you have won the contempt of the British Electorate. I’m just hoping that your mob hang on to Call me Dave, the Lib/dums hold on to Calamity Clegg and Labour to mine’s a monster bacon buttie Milband until the next election!

  • cargill55

    UKIP wants a sovereign and democratic Britain , Tories want Britain as a regional clone of an EU superstate.
    Farage and UKIP have a vision, the Liblabcon oligarchy just has self interest , abuse of our political system, cronies and are parasites on Britain and the British people.
    UKIP v Liblabcon corporate Fascism (Costed , comprehensive 2015 manifesto coming soon.)
    Smaller v big state.
    Sovereign v Britain in a superstate.
    Lower tax and spend v higher tax and spend
    No political correctness or multiculturalism v political correctness and
    multicultural extremism.
    Defend Britain v illegal and unnecessary wars
    Functioning democracy v broken democracy
    Keep nation state v EU superstate
    Controlled v uncontrolled immigration
    Deal with illegal immigrants v let 1 million illegal immigrants stay
    Welfare as a short term basic emergency v welfare as a lifestyle
    Lower tax and spend and balanced books v higher tax and spend and soaring state debt
    Common sense Britain v cronyism, quangocracy, charitocracy, bureaucracy.
    Britain first v Britain last.
    No instant immigrant benefits v immediate immigrant benefits
    EU exit v EU
    Emergency humanitarian aid v £60 billion every 5 years.
    NHS with fewer managers and higher standards v NHS cronyism.
    Tough on Law & Order v Soft on Law & Order
    No unnecessary foreign wars v EU/US expansionism

    • Donafugata

      A good analysis, if political correctness was the only factor, it alone would be enough to sway me.

      • cargill55

        Thanks for the kind comment.

  • you_kid


    Since the Seventies! Jesus Christ!

    • the viceroy’s gin

      …have you and the sockpuppets formed a religious sect now, lad?

      • dalai guevara

        YOUR GOD has just arrived, tovarishch.
        Vote him up, do not dither. It is YOUR GOD after all.

        • the viceroy’s gin

          …no, we’ll need a translator for your sockpuppet cult’s gibberish, lad.

        • Inverted Meniscus

          Can anybody translate this socialist nutter’s socialist nuttery and gibberish?

          • Wessex Man

            no many have tried, all have failed, best course of action is to ignore.

      • Inverted Meniscus

        Yes the holy order of socialist nuttery and gibberish.

    • Bluesman_1

      “You know, when I was a girl, the idea that the British Empire could ever
      end was absolutely inconceivable. And it just disappeared, like all the
      other empires.”

      Doris Lessing

  • Robert_Eve

    UKIP certainly cheers me!!

    • Kitty MLB

      The growth figures this morning , really cheered me
      up.But never mind that. Its not about the economy
      stupid as someone didn’t say.

      • Denis_Cooper

        Yeah, well, adjust them for population growth to see how per capita GDP has changed rather than just total GDP.

        • HookesLaw

          Go on then and do it. Figures show a growth in gdp per capita.

          • Denis_Cooper

            If you know the figures why not produce them?

            I’m sure there has been growth in pre capita GDP,
            but not as much as the growth in total GDP.

            • HookesLaw

              If you know them then you produce them. You brought up the subject. GDP is growing in gross and net terms. The economy is growing. That’s Growing. More people in jobs than ever and 9 out of 10 new jobs going to people from Britain.
              That’s what the last figures said. .. and you want to hand it all back to europhile labour. Admit it. Tell the world the truth for once.

              • Denis_Cooper

                You said:

                “Figures show a growth in gdp per capita”.

                so cut the crap and produce those figures.

              • Wessex Man

                You see Denis, always ask this fella for an answer and never get one, he’s much like all the Tories that are left in in their deminished, deluded, confused party now that all the sensible members have joined UKip!

              • sarahsmith232

                Have you not heard about the Japanese GDP per capita growth? From CNN GPS –
                ‘According to HSBC, Japan’s economy expanded by just 0.8 percent a year, on average. France was faster; the United States and Britain grew at twice Japan’s pace.’
                ‘Now look at growth per capita – growth per person. This is a number that gets less attention. The table is inverted. The U.S. and France are near the bottom, but Japan is at the top. This is because individual incomes are actually rising while the population is declining’
                During their ‘Lost Decades’ their overall GDP was sluggish but that didn’t show itself in sluggish GDP per capita growth. Japan is proof that mass immigration isn’t necessary, ends the argument, quite simply.

      • HookesLaw

        ‘Business hails brighter economy’ says the headlines. Kippers want to hand it back to europhile labour. Laughably they are the ones always talking about people living in ‘bubbles’. They are the ones talking about betrayal.
        They are the one eyed. They are the traitors. Traitors to their country and what it has always stood up for… morality and decency.

        • global city

          You have faith in Cameron, so you are not best placed to insult anyone’s sanity.

        • Smithersjones2013

          Yes it is so much brighter because its being fueled by a housing bubble and improved retail spending. Come the first interest rise that growth will be killed off pretty much. No wonder the government is planning to include the product of pimps, whores and drug dealers in the future GDP figures.

          I wonder if we will see Dave visiting a Brothel with THE poisonous Vince to claim the success of British prostitution?

          All pretty desperate if you ask me but the pimps, whores and drug dealers will be in good company when mixing with establishment politicians………

      • global city

        UKIP have not once stated that despite all the talk of how uncertainty would see inward investment disappear to the continent, from the moment Cameron made his (bogus) offer of a referendum that and the economy have shot through the roof. You can almost time it to the minute.

        Just like all the pronouncements of doom and gloom the europhiles throw about, this one too has already proven to be groundless.

        The irony it is the ONLY parts of the economy that are sluggish are those bits that have tied themselves to Europe. Most car plants are booming, the one targeting the EU is laying people off. Food and energy are horrifically expensive, due to the EU energy policies and the CAP. Hedge funds have moved in direct response to ‘improvements’ imposed by the Commission.

        Why no Eurosceptic has pointed out any of these things that prove that our membership is a burden, a drag on growth and employment is beyond me.

        • Secular_Investor

          @ global city

          “Why no Eurosceptic has pointed out any of these things that prove that our membership is a burden, a drag on growth and employment is beyond me.”

          The explanation is simple. The establishment want to shut off serious debate so they resort to smearing UKIP as racist as a tactic to divert attention from the real issues.

          You are totally right. The Europhiles are using the same old arguments about the dangers of leaving the EU as they did when they tried to persuade Britain to join the Euro.

          They argue that if we were outside the EU we would be like Norway and Switzerland and be subject to EU regulations without a voice or vote to argue against damaging EU laws and directives. However they ignore the facts

          * that we are habitually outvoted (55 times since the last general election) by Eurocrats and other countries because Labour and Tories gave up our rights to veto, so we a foisted with an ever rising burden of EU directives and regulation – 3,800 since Oct, 2010,

          * that the UK is no Norway. We are in fact the largest EU export market, importing 20% of all EU exports – more than China, the USA, India or any other country. There is no way the EU can impose EU regulations on the UK, anymore than they can impose them on China, the USA or India.

          * the UK is the largest export market for German cars, so German industry would not allow the EU to start a trade war with the UK or impose tariffs, because it would damage German industry more than us

          * the UK is the largest export market for French, Spanish and Italian wines, cheeses and other food products, so there is no way their powerful agricultural lobbies would allow the EU to start a trade war or impose tariffs on the prime market

          The UK would enjoy huge competitive advantages by freeing ourselves from the burden of EU regulations. We could ditch thousands of expensive and often unnecessary regulations, we could lower taxes and save ourselves the huge burden of Milliband’s green taxes which make EU energy prices 40% to 50% more expensive than the US, China and India

          • global city

            Splendid points…but to think, they are merely the tip of the iceberg!

          • Foxy Loxy

            But you forget that Norway has the power of veto over things at the consultation stage. They’re not in the EU, but have more influence over things affecting the Single Market than does Britain from its ‘privileged position’ inside the EU.

      • Mike

        It used to be but now its all about mass immigration and the EU control of the UK ! Osbornes news about the economy is redundant as far as voting intentions go.

      • Wessex Man

        Yes Kitty they cheered me up as well, despite a deceitful man like Cable in charge, business is still powering our country!

  • cargill55

    The old parties of the Liblabcon oligarchy are discredited through failure, cronyism , nepotism, parasitism and as purveyors of corporate fascism with their EU , big business, super rich and bureaucracy mates.
    UKIP is the antidote to this mix of liberal left extremism and corporate fascism which benefits everyone except the British people with t’s philosophy of a sovereign, democratic Britain putting British people first with common sense policies.
    There are five fundamental issues which Liblabcon will not fix.
    – EU membership.
    – Mass uncontrolled immigration.
    – A state which spends 50% of our GDP running itself badly with tax and spend not fit for purpose.
    – A broken political system giving away sovereignty and destroying democracy.
    – A foreign policy where we are a poodle of the USA , bow to the EU and where we do not respect our military.
    All our problems flow from that.
    Liblabcon are wholly unwilling to confront these issues, UKIP would, so no pact .

  • Hexhamgeezer

    UKIP didn’t start the war, LibLabConBBC did many years ago. The UKIP backlash is merely a limited (so far) and belated (too late?) retaliation to having ones ‘nose rubbed in it, whether on immigration or Eurolies, for decades.

    • telemachus

      The problem with the success of Ukip last Thursday is that it allows sycophantic arrogant little pipsqueaks to try to laud it over the majority
      Fortunately the success of Ukip has jolted the rest out of their torpor

      • Hexhamgeezer

        ….to try to..?………….attach themselves like threadworms to sensible comments?

        • telemachus

          I sit back and applaud sensible comments
          Some bloggers invite destruction

          • Hexhamgeezer

            and where
            would you be without ‘Guest Vote’ eh? you little self-fellator…….

          • Smithersjones2013

            You clap at your computer screen do you?

      • Mike

        The LibLabCon artists are still in denial, nothing has changed !

    • Secular_Investor

      Although LibLabCons all claim that their are “listening”, in fact they are in denial and running around like headless chickens. They have NO EFFECTIVE ANSWERS to UKIP.

      The problem is that UKIP’s message is resonating with large numbers of the core voters of ALL THREE establishment parties. Not only do LibLabCons have no answer but they and their metro media cronies have resorted to smearing and insulting the intelligence of their own voters calling them racists and xenophobes. Voters are far too sensible to be so easily misled. They know that to want to control immigration, to stop criminal gangs coming into the country and to be able to deport criminals is not racist but a sensible and necessary policy employed just about every country in the world – outside the EU.


      Large numbers of core Tories reject Cameron’s ultra wet, metro appealing PC policies. UKIP’s message resonates with Euro-sceptic Tories who Cameron has sidelined and appeals to traditional Tory values who reject the BBC/SKY/Guardian PC view of the world. When Cameron promises an EU referendum, UKIP voters don’t believe him because he broke similar “ cast iron” promises before. When he attempts to play chicken and threatens that a vote for UKIP is a vote for Labour, more and more UKIP voters say “so what – you are just as bad as Milliband and Clegg”


      Their metropolitan elitist leadership has turned against their own traditional core working class voters, who are in the front lone and are the main sufferers of Blair’s uncontrolled, mass immigration: poor job opportunities, wage compression, housing shortages, over crowded schools, over burdened NHS, high energy costs because of Milliband’s “green” taxes, and over stretched infrastructure caused by the stress and strain of the flood of many millions of immigrants. Milliband has ignored the pleas of his own MPs in labour’s Northern and Midland heartland and he continues to refuse recognise the damage caused to working class labour voters by mass immigration. He asks voters to trust him while refusing to trust them with an EU referendum.

      LIB DEMS

      Their metro elite leadership have turned against their traditional moderate centre party voters. They have become even more left of centre than Labour and have become dominated by fanatical Europhiles who, far from being Democratic, attempt to impose they minority views on the majority, refusing to support an EU referendum. LibDems had the image of being “nice” people, but Clegg exposed their true character by lying through his teeth to the British people in the debates. For resample

      * Clegg claimed that Farage had lied when he said there were 29 million Rumanians and Bulgarians – forgetting that we can all check on the internet to see that according to Wikipedia in 2005 there were 21.6 million Rumanians and 7.74 million Bulgarians i.e. a total of 29.4 million. Since 2005 their internal populations have declined because of MASS EMIGRATION to the EU i.e. proving Farage’s point.

      * Clegg also misquoted and misrepresented what Farage said, claiming he had said that 29 million Bulagarians and Rumanians WOULD emigrate to the UK when in fact what Farage said was that 29 million COULD and 485 MILLION EU nationals HAD THE RIGHT to emigrate to the UK – and there was nothing we could do about it, because of EU ruleseven, even if they were known criminals,.

      * Clegg also lied about loss of UK sovereignty, claiming that only 7% of UK laws were instigated by Europe, when in fact, since that last general election in 2010, there have been over 3,800 EU directives and regulations which are BINDING on the UK.

    • Ed LoveNest

      UKIP is like football hooliganism in politics

      • Wessex Man

        Ukip 4,376,635, Labour 4,020,646, tryies 3,792,549, Grens 1,136,670, Lib/dems 1,087,633 MAKES ME FEEL LIKE A PREMIER LEAGUE CHAMPION!

        • Ed LoveNest

          nope just hooligans

  • cargill55

    British politics is now UKIP versus the Liblabcon /MSM / EU mafia.
    The old parties of the Liblabcon oligarchy are discredited through failure, cronyism , nepotism, parasitism and as purveyors of corporate fascism with their EU , big business, super rich and bureaucracy mates.
    UKIP is the antidote to this mix of liberal left extremism and corporate fascism which benefits everyone except the British people with I it’s philosophy of a sovereign, democratic Britain putting British people first with common sense policies.
    UKIP will destroy the oligarchy, it’s already causing chaos in Liblabcon.
    So every single UKIP vote counts whether seats are won or not, the more UKIP can create chaos in the Liblabcon parasites the better for Britain

    • dalai guevara

      You know what lad, your perpetual same old same old spam about fascism and mafia and the like? I am beginning to like it. You turned me. I am now cured.

      Since Heath we have heard the likes of you talk about ‘keeping us in Europe’, and you know what? I have turned – I cannot hack it any longer, an entire generation moaned away instead of doing things. You clearly never did anything, but why now stop others?

      • cargill55

        Was Sagen sie , ich verstehe nicht.

        • dalai guevara

          I like how every single one of your comments gets the living daylight ‘postal voted’ out of them. That adds value, ja.

          Sehr gut, ja! Links, zwo, drei, vier directly to fascism, ja? Jawohl ja!

    • Kitty MLB

      Indeed the UK are not interested In quietly getting on
      with their lives, or the growth figures this morning, economic
      stability and improvement from the apocalyptic disaster
      left by Labour. They want instabiliy, chaos, riots in the
      streets. UKIP is not an extreme party. Which is good
      this country doesn’t do extremes.
      And as me rattling granny used to say fine words butter
      no, parsnips. Everyone has to prove themselves.

    • HookesLaw

      What a hilarious load of hysteric baloney. We see a leering fool leading a dim army of raving mad knuckle dragging bigots.

      • Wessex Man

        Yeah we know all about your party now produce those figures hooky babe!

      • cargill55

        Anything to offer or just same old Liblabcon insults and bullying?

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