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The UK is a Christian country, whether the Left like it or not

22 April 2014

As the crucifixion of Damian McBride over Easter in 2009 proves, the four-day news void can be gruesome for Downing Street, yet it seems congratulations are in order this year. No.10 managed to throw the chattering classes such a juicy bone of distraction that they all spent Easter trying to convince themselves that the UK is not a Christian country.

The row was stoked by an assorted group of lefties with impeccable Labour, Liberal and Green credentials writing to the Telegraph, questioning why a PM may possibly wish to talk about religion. The irony that it was Easter, top and tailed by two bank holidays where their entire ‘non-Christian country’ shuts down for 96 hours in celebration of the resurrection of Christ was lost on these modern day Doubting Thomases. No doubt they will resurrect their arguments when Christmas arrives.

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Leaving aside the fact that 59% of the UK population self-defines as Christians, we need only look at our institutions and state structure to see how bizarre this row has been. England has an established church. English bishops sit in our Parliament. A glance around the rim of our £1 coin will show you that our Head of State has another far more interesting title – Defender of the Faith. The Left weren’t so snooty about the Archbishop of Canterbury, our state-declared spiritual leader, when he was defending foodbanks.

We have a constitutional framework, legal system and legislature that is built around Judeo-Christian values. Almost every single bank holiday we have in this country is to mark some sort of Christian festival. Tens of thousands of children are educated every day in church-supported schools, and what is the first word of the national anthem again?

Some of Cameron’s fiercest critics over the weekend have also been amongst the loudest supporters for the NHS. They might not want to self-declare as Christians any more, but the ethos at the heart of the system is one of Christian compassion. Perhaps they should remind themselves of Andy Burnham’s favourite Nye Bevan quote: ‘the NHS is a little piece of Christianity’.

I say all this as a lapsed agnostic, open to the idea of a disestablished church and booting the bishops out of the Lords. But to deny that we are a Christian country is progressive revisionism of the highest order. Some people do not like the fact that we are a Christian country – but they should say so, rather than pretend otherwise. Attempting to rewrite history and ignore our heritage, as well as our current governing structure, is at best delusional. At worst it shows metropolitan liberal society attempting to cleanse the parts of Britain it finds distasteful.

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  • Martin J

    I’m afraid it’s rather too easy to throw forth arguments based in tradition without taking into account wider cultural factors. To say that the UK is a Christian country is simply not correct, nor do I think it right – particularly as an elected leader – to define a country according to your own religious beliefs. Religion simply has no place in these matters. Now, lets move on to your arguments.

    1) “The irony that it was Easter … entire ‘non-Christian country’ shuts down for 96 hours in celebration of the resurrection of Christ” – oh come on now, let’s be realistic about this. Can you truly say that you believe this nonsense? I dare you to go out and ask a random sample of 1000 people why they celebrate Easter, and I will happily bet you a chocolate egg that the majority will not mention Christ. Unless, of course, you ask them why Easter is celebrated in general, in which case anyone older than 9 will be able to tell you about Jesus, but that doesn’t mean that they celebrate because of him.

    Like Christmas, it’s a holiday that has been appropriated into wider culture, and to the majority of the people who celebrate it, it has taken on a completely different meaning. Culture constantly evolves!

    2) “59% of the UK-population self-defines as Christians” – this is a fact you got from the census, correct? Statistics are a real pain to deal with. The problem with handing people a questionnaire is that the very way your phrase a question will induce different answers. For the 2011 census, the question to which you are referring simply asked “what is your religion?” and one of the options was to say that you did not have one. That’s an unfortunately vague way to ask a question, and one I have in fact discussed with quite a few people. Many of my friends who never go to church nor claim to believe in the Christian god nonetheless ticked Christian. Why would they do that? Normally their answer is something along the lines of “well I was baptised.”

    Does that make you a Christian? If so, I guess I am too. Someone dipped me in a tub of water when I wasn’t old enough to decide whether or not to void my bladder at any given point in time. I don’t think that qualifies me as a Christian, but others do.

    Then there are people who stay with a belief and self-identify with it simply so as not to disappoint family. I have several friends, my girlfriend included, who stick with their religion simply to satiate their parents, despite the fact that they are all adult in their own right.

    For the question to be of any relevance it should ask in more detail about people’s beliefs – what exactly do they believe? How often do they practice their religion? Without knowing the answer to questions such as these, we can’t take the ticking of a box at face value. We must first have a definition of what it is to be a Christian, or indeed a member of any other religion.

    3) “England has an established church. English bishops sit in our Parliament. A glance around the rim..” yes, yes, yes! So what? What you are proving with these arguments is that it’s difficult to change something that has been a certain way for hundreds of years. People and institutions are conservative in that way. We know. More relevant would be to ponder whether you think, if Britain and its government was to be completely reformed from scratch this very day, that the Church would have anything like the influence and be anything like the size it is now, thanks to its rich history. I certainly don’t. Without hundreds of years of indoctrination and infiltration into every crevice off society, it’s rather difficult to believe that they would, in this modern day, reach a similar level of influence.

    I hold the same view to your rant about Christian schools and the roots of other bank holidays.

    4) “We have a constitutional framework, legal system and legislature that is built around Judeo-Christian values.”

    Yes indeed, and these are built around national selection. Not killing each other and not sleeping with each other’s partners is a great way to avoid the whole species being wiped out. Either way, you are once again falling back on tradition to defend your argument, and that simply isn’t enough.

  • Patrick McGrath

    All organised religion is false; all. Christianity is a conceptual idea, thought made and so false. Identifying with a conceptual idea as in “I am Christian” or “I am Muslim” is meaningless. In the same way as saying I am English is meaningless, as it is not possible to become a conceptual idea. Identifying with a thought made concept as defining what or who one is, is madness. Cameron stating that England is a Christian country is meaningless babble, because a country can not be a concept.

    • Bonkim

      Spot on.

    • ClownMocker

      Your post is a conceptual idea, thought made and so false.
      Suck it.

      • Patrick McGrath

        Yes troll that is correct

  • Higherhopes

    It is somewhat baffling that this is becoming a left vs right issue (‘assorted group of lefties’). The debate transcends such political generalisations which are unhelpful. I feel that the point that the group were making is that it is wrong to use rhetoric which suggests that those of Christian faith have either exclusive ownership of the values we all share or qualify as any more British than those of other faiths. In a country where, as the author points out, the Church enjoys anachronistic privilege as do those who ‘worship’ – refer to the absurd notion that schools can exclude potential pupils on the basis of their parents lack of church attendance (not whether they are actually Christian, although that seems to be the Church’s misapprehension) if evidence is needed of how unfair, even un-Christian, being a Christian country can be. That is not a left vs right issue, but a right vs wrong one, and the sort of thing the ‘lefties’ allude to.

    • cartimandua

      Only the modern Protestant C of E protects both individual belief and the safety of shared public space.
      The secularists live in a Utopia. What actually would happen and is happening is fundamentalists of the worst kind… win.
      That is why in the USA religious rubbish has outflanked science around womens health in many US States.
      It isn’t because there is no religion its because they all have to be” equal.”

  • thomo

    I would just love to know what is WRONG with being a Country that
    believes in ‘loving your neighbour as yourself’ what is there not to
    like about a religion that cares for ALL peoples and is totally
    inclusive. A faith that says ‘knock and I will answer’. A faith that has
    over centuries in this land put the Welfare of others first. May we
    always be a land that stands up for our Christian beliefs and values

    • Graeme Harrison

      There’s nothing wrong with the principle but quite a lot wrong with believing that we need to do so to stop a semitic sky pixie with a personality disorder from getting pissed off.

      • ClownMocker

        Always amazes me how blatantly anti-semitic much atheist drivel is.

  • DanV

    I’m certainly not a greater mind than you Ulysses, but I’d say that it really is as simple as the left hating Christianity because of collective unresolved ‘daddy issues’ that leave them perpetually frozen in adolescence. Islam plays the role of the friend from the wrong side of the tracks that the rebellious teenager uses to annoy daddy.

    • ClownMocker

      Upvote for you, sir.

  • Thats_news

    Freed slaves set up Liberia. Can’t we free the likes of Philip Pullman and the other ‘extemy screamy’ atheists to let them leave the UK and set up their own atheist paradise, far from our shores? We could call it Atheistia.

    • ClownMocker

      They already have an officially atheist country to go to – North Korea.

  • Dougie

    Jim Al-Khalili and his usual suspects insist that Britain is not a Christian country but a multi-cultural one. This is laughable. The result of two decades and more of social policy designed to create a multi-cultural society is instead a multiplicity of mono-cultures.
    Jim and his motley crew think that they can wipe away our Christian heritage and replace it with a blank page on which to write their right-on apercus. Unfortunately, while the CofE will undoubtedly let the humanists roll them over in the name of tolerance and left-leaning liberalism – after all, how many Anglican bishops give the impression of actually believing in God? – there is another religion in Britain that is uninterested in tolerance, freedom of religion, or even freedom of speech and will take the opportunity to write its own rules across that blank page. If we don’t retain our confidence in our Christian-derived laws, culture, institutions, customs and shared heritage, within 30 years this will be not a Christian but a Muslim country. Try writing to the papers then, Polly Toynbee.
    P.S. I’m an atheist myself but prefer to live in a country where we all agree instinctively that amputation is not an appropriate punishment for theft.

    • ClownMocker

      …or for not worshipping Kim Jong Il.

  • Jeff Evans

    Britain is a country whose culture is based on Christian values. But (in my opinion) it is wrong to say that it is a “Christian country”. This would imply that all its citizens were committed “born-again” Christians. The only society that approached this was the original Pilgrim Fathers’ settlement at Plymouth, Massachusetts. But non-believers soon joined the settlement, and parents cannot automatically bind their children to any religion, so even that did not last long.

    In short, there is no such thing as a “Christian Country” – except what Jesus referred to as the Kingdom of Heaven, which, as he said, is not of this world.

    • ClownMocker

      Cameron’s pro-sodomite anyway, what does he know.

  • Conway

    They are trying very hard to remove the holy from holiday. First it was Sunday shopping and now it’s Good Friday racing. I doubt if it will be long before Easter Sunday becomes just another day to worship at the altar of consumerism, closely followed by Christmas.

  • Gargrave

    Socialism is a jealous god, tolerating worship of no other.

  • CharlietheChump

    The trouble with English Christianity (notice NOT Brititsh, NOT UK, already post-bye- bye jocks) is the Church of England.

    Totally agree about the Bishops. Kick the fat princes of the church out of their palaces and help solve homelessness.

  • NBeale

    By “lapsed agnostic” do you mean, as I hope and correct grammar would suggest, that you used to be an agnostic but now you know better?

  • hairybuddha

    Christianity has shallow roots in Britain, Christianity came here relatively late, took even longer to penetrate the countryside and even today the common “spirituality” found among the religiously unaffiliated is more akin to paganism that Christianity. A good thing too, pagan values are what built this country, the NHS surely owes more to Asclepius than Christ.

    • ClownMocker

      Absolute rubbish. An NHS based on pagan values would involve some shaman driving a spike through your head to let the bad spirits out – then when it doesn’t work, the good old wicker man treatment.

      • hairybuddha

        I could say Christian medicine involves never washing in order to keep the demons away, or a highly excitable congregation shouting and halleluiaing the demons out. One way or another it’s all hocus pocus. Medicine and healing was a primary concern of many pagan gods and cults, something that cannot be said for Christianity. Christ may have healed, but he did it by magic as a side show to his main mission, later Christians basically abandoned medicine for centuries afterwards.

  • cartimandua

    What Ukip should have done is show a couple of people worried about their jobs and one or more of them would be a person of colour. It is the poorest and most recently arrived who are displaced by news waves of migration.
    Lefties are shameless.

  • cartimandua

    Just want to see if this works. Ooh it does. We are a Christian country because all our art literature and music for centuries has been part of or informed by Christianity.
    We literally cannot understand or appreciate all our great culture without Christianity.

  • BulldogSpirit

    Moronic article.Cameron’s comments cannot be taken as a simple statement of fact, borderline accurate though that may be at a stretch. You HAVE to place the comment in the context of the knuckle headed, pernicious wave of tribalism swamping debates north and south of the border. And think about them in the context of UKIP’s racist posters today. As a lifelong Conservative, who happens to be Jewish too, I’d like him to show some leadership and celebrate The UK as an open economy and multicultural society.

    • Picquet

      It is not a moronic article at all. It is, in fact, purely factual, and in my opinion, admirable. It will not be long before the signatories to that piece of puerile drivel will be forced by the weight of contempt upon them to hide in the darkest of their multicultural closets.

      • BulldogSpirit

        ..and thank you for validating the exact point I was making: an inane observation by Cameron about religion and national identity is jumped on as a case for the defence for those with a clear anti-immigrant agenda. What exactly are “multicultural closets”? Feels like you’re insinuating something rather unpleasant…

        • Picquet

          Oh yes, every shadowy lie-strewn and lie-locked and lie-grown little place in the minds and imaginations of the culturally cancerous brutes who are attempting (with a great deal of success, sadly) to destroy everything about the home I once knew and loved. Damnation and pain to them.

    • Conway

      What racist posters? I can’t see any reference to race at all – unless EU citizens are a different race?

  • Jonathan Roberts

    The left’s core mantra is to ban everything the don’t like. Now it appears they are simply refusing to accept the existence of things they don’t like.
    I attend church infrequently, but on Sunday it was packed – standing room only – with worshippers young and old, black/white/asian and from (without reading too much into appearances) all social classes. Christianity, it appears, seems to embody the one nationism that the left pretend to desire.

  • zanzamander

    Christianity is monotheist. David Cameron cannot therefore believe in any other religions or faiths, but Christianity. As such it is about time that he stepped out and said that all other non-Christian faiths as false, if he is really a Christian, that is.

    • john

      But is Christianity monotheistic? If so what are (1) angels (2) the devil (3) seraphs etc? Do saints make the cut? The Trinity concept is obviously a fudge and nobody can really explain what it means.

      • ClownMocker

        The Trinity means that God is three persons of one being. There, that wasn’t so hard was it?

    • MrVeryAngry

      He doesn’t have to ‘believe’ in other Faiths. He has to believe in his own Faith and then pray to (his) God that those in other Faiths will one day see the Light.

  • Mark William Gullick

    The Left – emotivists all – just want to annoy Daddy, even if it means the whole summer holidays are spoiled. Best to sit them at the kiddies’ table and let the grown-ups talk.

  • zanzamander

    How does Cameron explain the dichotomy of his words and his actions.

    To claim that this is a Christian country and then to allow unrestrained migration of, essentially, anti-Christians (i.e. those who deny the very existence of Christ as a son of god or those who flatly reject his teachings or deny the Resurrection or claim that Christ corrupted the true words of god)?

    Not only that, but to then go on and claim that the belief system that denies Christianity its very existence is also a true word of god is a bit confusing to say the least.

    You know.

    • ClownMocker

      I think he meant to say “a Christian country where Christians are forced into accepting homosexual perversion”.

  • Bonzodog

    I think that there is a big difference between having Christian values ( well New Testament anyway – the OT God is an evil sod ) and being a Christian. I think that most atheists would acknowledge the power and morality of Christ’s teachings without believing in the deity of Jesus. We in the UK have had about 1600 years in which the Christian Church has been a dominant force in the UK and so it is not surprising that pretty well all of us have got (or are required to uphold via the justice system which grew out of the Church) Christian values.

  • john

    Quote: we need only look at our institutions and state structure to see how bizarre this row has been. England has an established church. English bishops sit in our Parliament. A glance around the rim of our £1 coin will show you that our Head of State has another far more interesting title – Defender of the Faith”.

    This is precisely the problem. Britain is a class-ridden society and these turgid institutions exist to maintain that division. The country is run by the unholy trinity – Tories, monarchy and CoE. None are appropriate for the 21st century.

    • Andy

      I wish to God it was run by the Monarchy, the Tory Party and the Church of England. It wouldn’t be in the bloody mess it is now if it were.

      • john

        Not much sense in that comment, Andy. You don’t want to vote? You don’t like education for all? You like a class based society? These were the products of the triumvirate’s unchallenged rule and lasted till the mid 19th century.

        • Andy

          I would far rather have Monarch like Queen Elizabeth than that useless idiot Obama or Hollandaise. I would far rather have the Tory Party than the evil Fascist Labour Party and cretins like Gordon the moron Brown. And I would far rather have the Church of England than Islamic scum who would murder you as soon as look at you. So there is more sense in my comment than your useless ramblings.

          • john

            OK Andy, save these nutty ramblings for your mates in the pub – they’re not worth putting on paper.

            • ClownMocker

              Typical lefty tactic.

  • Denis_Cooper

    This magazine will never bow to political censorship, it will just self-censor by installing an absurd system of automatic moderation which inter alia means that in this supposedly Christian country there is no possibility of the few remaining devout Christians using its comments section to exchange their views on the existence and nature of —-, even though heaven and —- have always been central concepts in Christian theology. Heaven, yes, they can discuss that as much as they like, but nobody is permitted to even mention its counterpart. How weird is that?

    • cartimandua

      I have just been banned on the Telegraph and I have no idea what for.
      I suppose I failed to toe some hidden party line.

      • Denis_Cooper

        Overnight I have been banned from ConservativeHome.

        Nothing said, comments silently vaporised yesterday and now banned.

        I suppose in a way it’s a badge of honour.

        • cartimandua

          The huge problem is that it is media deciding “who may speak”. (I’v been banned from the Graun for supporting women’s rights).
          Chivers actually said this on twitter is a rude smarmy smug way.
          They “permit” people to speak (or not). That leaves media proprietors and their political “friends” in charge of a great deal of public space and this is horribly dangerous.
          The Telegraph pushes the Vatican line (and the Tories of course). The Graun is skippy through the daisies Lefty.
          The Ind is owned by Russians I think.
          Meanwhile men on the Telegraph are massively abusive to all and sundry and very few women ever post at all.
          I have also been critical of the media perhaps that is the unforgiveable sin.
          My Father and Grandfather were journalists. I know about adequate standards of journalism and it is not the ignorant claiming their opinion as fact.
          What is a pleasure though is that now politicians are saying things I have been saying for years. So it does feel like the debate has been given a useful shove.

      • wibbling

        Banned, carti? I can’t think why.

        The last time that happened to an older account it was for suggesting a mass tax strike.

        • cartimandua

          Considering the regular abuses meted out by male posters
          it beggars belief really.
          Still I will use my economic power for other groups and we have pushed the debate.
          Politicians are now saying what many of us have said for years.
          Worrying though that media barons can decide who has access to public space and who may speak.

  • Denis_Cooper

    Just for amusement, let’s try posting my original comment but with the word “—-” replaced by “heaven”.

    • Denis_Cooper

      No, this is now a secular country with a long and deep and generally benign Christian tradition but relatively few devout Christians. And that is how the great majority of us want it to stay, we do not want it to become an X country where X refers to some other religion. This is a mistake made by some of the remaining devout and well-meaning Christians, that they put a lot of emphasis on avoiding conflict between their faith and other faiths, which of course at present means Islam above all others, when the profound conflict is between the secularism that almost all of us have come to accept as being the best way to run our society, and Islam, which in its extreme forms would take us back to the middle ages but with modern methods of easy and efficient mass murder. We only have to look around the world at Islamic countries to see what heaven would await us if Islam ever came to dominate our own society, and the burden of preventing that happening necessarily falls upon the secular majority not on the small and rather weak and foolish Christian minority, who would be as lambs to slaughter.

  • Raw England

    The backwards, uneducated London Liberals must FALL.

  • Jenson Phaedor

    It’s ridiculous to assume that we are all equal.

  • Denis_Cooper


    • Denis_Cooper

      is OK.

      • Denis_Cooper

        —- is not.

        • BuBBleBus

          Denis_ you MUST not say anything bad about Islam, especially on the squeaky-clean Spectator website (as I have also found out to my cost… I am shut out of this website if I log on from my usual website).

          • cartimandua

            Are you on the Telegraph? I have just been dumped from there.

  • Jez

    I think what you need to do Harry, is look at the Ukraine.

    Now they are in the same throes as Northern Ireland with two cultures very similar- but have significant differences, that when it comes to the crunch they identify themselves as completely separate entities.

    Now look at this conversation in relation to that above fact- and tell me that we in the UK, as a culture of Western Christians with rapidly expanding Asian/ African Muslim populations, large numbers of African Christians settling here- with the roughly static numbers of Jews, Sikhs, Hindus etc all packed in one of the most over crowded spaces on the planet, are a far too superior group of people to not in 40 years be faced with a Balkans situation?

    Sprinkle a bit of PC revision of history taught in schools and you really are (prospectively) creating a bit of a powder keg…….. *if* you were to believe such right wing scare mongering. As no one would ever need to belive such nonsense- because we’re all talking about it now. So it’ll be all ok.

  • Colin

    I particularly liked this quote, by Malcolm Muggeridge, hat tip to Peter Saunders.

    ‘I’ve spent a number of years in India and Africa where I found much righteous endeavour undertaken by Christians of all denominations; but I never, as it happens, came across a hospital or orphanage run by the Fabian Society, or a humanist leper colony’.

    Bang on the money.

    • cartimandua

      But if Christianity is merely “nice” it will be wiped out by those who see religions as to do with territory.

    • Higherhopes

      Here’s and example:

      Set up because of the challenges of not being a Christian.

      • Alexsau91

        Wow. Providing a nice humanist education to needy children, because of the challenges of being non-Christian. Excuse me for being sceptical, but was this charity set up exclusively to help people, or further an agenda?

        The Salvation Army for example helps people of all and no faith, not to spread a Christian message, but to help the lonely, elderly, homeless or sick, because they need help.

        • Higherhopes

          It’s easy to cherry-pick charities both with and without agendas aligned with a faith ethos. A better example of a non-religous charity would be the Gates foundation.

  • David B

    There is a difference between being expressly religious and following a Christian faith and following Christian values. That is what the critics miss, those values are deep in our laws and our value system.

    • cartimandua

      Of course. No other religion actually values individuals at all.

      • edward

        I assume this is ironic… 😉

        • cartimandua

          No it isn’t. Religions which require obedience to a rule or “submission” to clericalism do not give individuals a direct relationship to their God.
          The point about Protestantism was and is a direct relationship with God. That has allowed “off piste” thinking and creativity.

  • MikeF

    “We have a constitutional framework, legal system and legislature that is built around Judeo-Christian values.”
    Well we did – whether we still do is another matter. The left have been dismantling those structures for decades in the name of their own ‘gods’ of ‘equality’ and ‘diversity’ – false gods because even in their own terms they denote their exact opposite in this case preference and conformity and false also because the Left is ultimately a cult of self-worship to which everything else will be sacrificed.

  • Denis_Cooper

    Or maybe it’s not because I used the words —– and ——- but also the word —- which appears in Christian texts and refers to a horrible place where the souls of the wicked suffer eternal torment, and suggested looking at ——- countries around the world to get an idea of the —- this country would become if it ceased to be a secular country and instead fell under the domination of —–.

    • Jenson Phaedor

      You need to get laid.

      • Denis_Cooper

        You can go to heaven.

        • MrVeryAngry

          To quote (approximately) “Never in all human history was a man more in need of a blow job…”

          • Denis_Cooper

            Quoting from whom?

            • MrVeryAngry

              From Robin Williams – Good Morning Vietnam! He says it as an exit line to the humourless sergeant. BTW – I wasn’t commenting on your comment. I just thought it was apt

      • ClownMocker

        Save it for the bath-house, darling.

  • roger

    Britain,most of Europe, most of the Balkans even, are Christian in culture and history.
    I happen to think God was created by ‘man’ and not the other way round but these atheists are just the useful idiots for a dangerous invasion from south and east of Europe, as has been the case since the time of Roland, Prinz Eugen and the winged hussars.

  • @PhilKean1

    Nothing to do with left or right – no matter how hard unthinking Liberals try to blame the left.

    I am of the right. Yet I believe I was the first one to attack David Cameron for sowing the seeds of future religious tensions.

  • MichtyMe

    Hmmm, the majority know nothing of Christianity or any other religion. They would struggle even with the simple, number of disciples, the commandments and as for the doctrines of transubstantiation or predestination…well.

    • arnoldo87

      Yes, and transubstantiation is so very relevant to the life of the average Briton nowadays.
      How DO they get through the working week without such knowledge?

      • Conway

        I’d be surprised if transubstantiation were relevant to anybody other than a Catholic.

    • komment

      You sort of prove your point. Christianity is not a religion it is a faith.

    • ClownMocker

      Doctrines of transubstantiation and predestination? Not in my Bible.

  • Denis_Cooper

    Oh, no, just deleting the potentially offensive words does not mean that my comment escapes moderation.

    • Denis_Cooper

      Those potentially offensive words which I replaced with dashes being:




      This is on the website of a publication which claims to be a stout defender of free speech.

      What is the matter with you people?

      • Andy

        Indeed. All across the Muslim World Christianity is being persecuted and oppressed – even in supposedly secular Turkey where the Patriarch Bartholomew lives almost under siege. We should not be shy of proclaiming our Christian Heritage and it is that Christian and Anglican Heritage which allows other religions to flourish here even when Christianity is oppressed in lands dominated by other faiths.

  • komment

    David Cameron is quite correct to claim, or reclaim, that Britain (holistic England) is a Christian country and that those who have the faith should be vocal in isupport of it and leave to others to play Judas.
    Christianity is under threat on a daily basis by those faiths who sit either side of it in the Abrahanic chronology. I find the tenor of the humour expressed in the broadcasting media very ant-Christian and I often wonder if it would be allowed if the subject of the mockery were either Jewish or Islamic. Some academic in the US has just published a book claiming Jesus was nothing more than lawless reactionary, an explanation, perhaps, to excuse his fake trial and execution.

  • zanzamander

    Too little, too late.

  • Mc Kenzie

    Cameron is god bothering because Lynton told him to – shore up the core – buy off the Evangelist Tory entryists and tie in a few oldies tempted by the Kips – last chance saloon for Call me Dave

    • Kitty MLB

      Well yes, dear McKenzie( regards to Fergus) they are all
      so out of touch with the people they are suppose to serve
      and cannot be bothered to climb out of their ivory towers
      To find out.So their advisors tell them what they think
      the electorate want to here.But I do believe Cameron is
      a christian and that faith helped him when his son died,
      he believes this country is christian also, I am sure,
      its just people no longer trust any of them….

      • Conway

        I can’t reconcile Cameron’s “Christianity” with a desire to push through a redefinition of marriage against the Church’s liturgy, knowing full well, as he surely must, that his “protection” for those whose conscience meant they could not conduct such “marriages” would be challenged in the ECHR (Christian belief is certainly no defence against dismissal if your conscience gets in the way). I can, however, easily reconcile his sudden conversion to Christian belief once he had realised how many supporters he had lost. I am not sure that G*d is willing to grant him the miracle he so clearly needs.

        • ClownMocker

          If he’d consulted the numbers first, he might have noticed that the homosexual vote was numerically worthless.

    • the viceroy’s gin

      Yes, it is insulting the way Call Me Dave has suddenly found religion. He doesn’t mean a word of it, and all know that.

      You’re finished, Dave. And now we know that you know it.

  • zanzamander

    ‘the NHS is a little piece of Christianity’

    It could equally be a little piece of Communism, it is just that Bevan said Christianity, that doesn’t mean that it cannot be anything else.

    To think that only Christianity has monopoly on compassion is wrong.

    • Derek Northcote

      Particularly when you look into it’s violent history.

    • DavidL

      I don’t tend to link communism with compassion. Neither did Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, or the Soviet Union’s placemen in Eastern Europe.

      • zanzamander

        I agree, but I was making comparison of provision of free health care, both under the NHS and communism.

        So, in other words, Bevan could have said that “the NHS is a little piece of Socialism” and it (the statement) would still be correct. Point I’m trying to make is that the NHS (or provision of free health care, if you will) is not dependent on Christianity for it to exist. It could just as well exist in systems and cultures that are non-Christian or atheists even.

        Anyway, I hope you can see my point.

        • DavidL

          Yes. Point taken

  • Denis_Cooper

    No idea at all why my comment is now “waiting to be approved”.

  • zanzamander

    But what does it mean? I mean practically, how are we different from say a secular country?

  • Ricky Strong

    Even as an agnostic I can see how the decline of Christianity in this country coincides with the loss of a national identity. Multi-cultural, multi-faith, multi-national and a multitude of problems.

    • Cooper1992

      100% correct Sir. If the UK continues to slide down the economic pole – replaced by Mexico, Pakistan, Indonesia and Brazil – then the UK will implode as social problems will collide with economic problems.

      • Conway

        If we have a long, hot summer added to that mix, the mixture will surely explode.

  • Alex

    Aren’t many of the examples given simply demonstrating ‘cultural inertia’, i.e. the legacy of once having been a Christian country?
    IMHO it says nothing about Britain today.

  • freddiethegreat

    Progressive revisionism; liberalism, delusional. You’re sort of repeating yourself.

  • McRobbie

    It does not matter how many in the UK are currently following christians. The simple fact that there are other religions openly following their own religion is solely because the UK has always followed christian ethics. If it hadn’t we would have been talking about killing muslims instead of listening to muslims talking about killing kaffirs.

    • Andy

      The reason why the UK (England actually) is so accomodating is because of our Anglican heritage. And for that we have Queen Elizabeth to thank who created the Anglican Church.

      • komment

        I thought it was Henry VIII, but I must confess I am neither Anglican or English so my vote doesn’t count.

        • Andy

          The Anglican Church as we know it was established by Queen Elizabeth I. Her sister, Queen Mary, had restored the Roman Catholic religion, sweeping away the reformed church of her brother King Edward VI. When Queen Elizabeth reestablished the church she selected the form of worship and the translation of the bible to be used, and although slightly altered over the centuries (King James Bible and 1662 Prayer Book) the church remains much as she set out. It is essentially a compromise church where you will find elements of Rome and the reformers, so is quintessentially English in character.

          • Duke_Bouvier

            The 3-way split between Catholics, Protestants and non-conformists meant that alliances were formed on the basis of letting two or more parties co-exist, which then led to increases in religious freedom.

          • Conway

            Elizabeth did not want a window on men’s souls. She was a wise ruler.

            • Andy

              Exactly. She was far more tolerant than is generally appreciated. Outward conformity and you loyalty was all that was required. The English tradition is that you can basically believe what you like so long as you don’t betray the State. Islamo scum are traitors and should be treated as such.

          • Alexsau91

            Correct me if I’m wrong, but Edward VI’s church was radically protestant – not like Henry’s church (who I believe even a Catholic death), or Elizabeth’s church – which was both Catholic and Protestant, as you explained.

            • Andy

              You are partly right. King Henry VIII was a catholic – he just rejected the pope. Edward VI was more influenced by the reformers (well his guardians were, Somerset & Northumberland). Archbishop Cranmer wrote two Book of Common Prayer, the first of which was more catholic in sentiment than the second. When Queen Elizabeth succeeded in 1558 we had again Roman Catholic practises so the Queen reformed the church and adopted Cranmer’s second prayer book but she inserted in the Communion Service the words of consecration from the first prayer book – the first affirmed the doctrine of the ‘presence’, while the second denied it by deeming it a commemorative act. You therefore listened to which set of words you liked ! It was a very English fudge but it worked. And that in simple terms is what we have today.

      • Rocksy

        I didn’t realise she was that old.

  • Ulysses Returns

    I leave it to greater minds than mine to expound on why the left is so antipathetic to religion, or more specifically Christianity, while being so welcoming to Islam. Baptised and raised a Christian, I am nevertheless an atheist who retains Christian values and it is these values that have served England so well over the centuries. The left, seeking to decry Christianity, are essentially displaying their anti-English mindset, but to paraphrase Lenin, they will be hanged by their Islamic comrades they so strangely seek to befriend.

    • freddiethegreat

      Thank you. A very reasonable post. I wish you were not an atheist. You may be interested in ‘The book that made your world’ by Vishnal Mangalwadi.

      • telemachus

        Visha is a true socialist who was thrown in prison for his socialist views and actions

        “In 1976, Vishal and Ruth moved to his father’s farm in Gatheora village in Chhatarpur District and founded a non-profit, the Association For Comprehensive Rural Assistance to serve the rural poor and transform their caste-based feudal social system. His work was opposed, violently resisted.”

    • MrVeryAngry

      Hint. “Religion is the opium of the people ” Karl Marx

      • Paddy S

        Well his ideas killed hundreds of millions of people so I wouldnt be using him as a source of authority on anything. He was also a first class plagurist….

      • Baron

        Religion ain’t the same as opium, MrVeryAngty, try both, you’ll see.

        • MrVeryAngry

          I know that. But clearly Marx didn’t. (He may have been using a simile).

    • Rocksy

      I’m quite happy to have you be an atheist. You make a better Christian than some Christians I know.

      • ClownMocker

        Only in this day and age could such rubbish be spoken.

    • Tom M

      Excellent point of view, wholeheartedly agree.

  • The Laughing Cavalier

    “But to deny that we are not a Christian country is progressive revisionism of the highest order.”

    Shome mishteak shurly.

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