Over Ukraine, we have lost our moral compass

16 April 2014

A week’s holiday in the perfect seaside town of Staithes was intended to be recuperative and restful, a time to clear the mind, even if the kids were with me. But I return no less confused about the events in Ukraine and, in particular, our reaction to them.

I left for the north already in a state of confusion over our support for a mob which overthrew a democratically elected government, even if it was a crap government. This was ‘people power’, though, apparently – and that makes it all right. But now there are insurrections in the east of the country – and yet these are apparently the work of thugs and recidivists and we have enjoined the illegal Kiev government to crack down on them with great vigour. Russia is behind it all, we are told – and I don’t doubt that there are Russian agents at work. But is anyone doubting the aspirations of the people in the east of the country? And are they not more legitimate than those of the people in the west of the country, seeing that they simply resented watching a democratically elected government, which had their full support, overthrown with the encouragement and possibly assistance of the western powers?

It seems to me that we have lost our moral compass. Perhaps Clarks could manufacture some more of those shoes which used to have a compass in the heel, then we’d all know where we stand.

Give the perfect gift this Christmas. Buy a subscription for a friend for just £75 and you’ll receive a free gift too. Buy now.

Show comments
  • allymax bruce

    Rod, the Neo-Cons that thought they only needed to force a
    ‘situation’ in Kiev, for it to escalate into a full-blown tit-for-tat
    war strategy, have realised their ‘plans’ are stupid, and that President
    Putin has outsmarted them.
    Now that NATO have put a ‘Peacekeeping Force’ into Europe, the EU Nations ‘functioning’ this ‘Peacekeeping Force’ do not want war on their doorstep; they will make sure the Neo-Cons fail in their Machiavellian malevolent plans. President Putin seen this right from the start, but needed the EU / NATO ‘Peacekeeping Forces’ Nations to see it was their ‘end-game’ that was going to be played-out, not his. President Putin is a clever politician. I have to congratulate President Obama too; he has let the Neo-Cons basically make fools of themselves; great mid-terms electioneering! I pray USA votes-in another excellent politician, Peacekeeping Humanitarian like President Obama; the world really needs peace, as opposed-to the Neo-Cons continual war objectives.

  • Dogsnob

    ‘Wayfinders’! My first fashion item.

  • Bonkim

    Bring back discussion on Syria – or is it now forgotten?

  • disqus_KdiRmsUO4U

    First ‘common sense’ (aka its true cos I agree) appraisal of the Ukraine situation I have read.

    The situation is potentially very very serious.
    Best worst case scenario: military action Ukraine Russia.

    Worst worst case scenario USA intervenes to protect people from themselves

    Witness the overflight by a Russian jet of I assume an armed to the teeth US warship described as provocative by Obama.
    Lets hope he was just ‘playing politics’ in order to appear resolute.

  • artemis in france

    Sorry Rod, only just read this. As usual, you’ve nailed this one. Obama has a lot to answer for, as do the titans who run the EU.

  • Snipkokken Balsov

    The shoes with a compass in the heel were called Wayfinders.

  • james smith

    You have the premise for an excellent article, why is it so short…?

  • DougS

    Not much to add to Rod’s summary.

    This is Russia’s (highly subsidised) back yard – something the stupid EU and Americans should have considered before they went a-courting Ukraine. The US wouldn’t stand for it if the shoe was on the other foot, yet they scream with self righteous indignation at the sight of someone else doing it.

    • arnoldo87

      The Baltic states are in “Russia’s back yard”. OK for Putin to grab these too, then, is it?

  • ADW

    A long time ago the FCO leaked out that Hague had no “mojo” – who never asked proper questions at briefings, never appeared to take in anything he was told, never did proper research, and generally seemed utterly clueless and pitiful. Then there was that cringing business of him flying around with some wet behind the ears graduate “special adviser” – who manifestly had no qualifications for being a special anything. Hague at the best of times was never more than a sixth form debater. He has no place holding one of the great offices of state. How he has retained his position is anyone’s guess – maybe Cameron was desperate for someone harmless (ie useless) who hadn’t been a Bullingdon member.

  • Colin56

    Blimey Rod, whatever makes you think any government ever had a ‘moral compass’? I think a swift return visit to t’ North might restore your normal sense of clear-sighted reality. Good news for Clarks though.

  • Mynydd

    Ukraine is not our problem, once again, Ukraine is not our problem. Mr Cameron/Clegg/Hague should shut up, and certainly not be taking sides, especially when all are as bad as each other. Before long Cameron/Clegg/Hague/Osborne will be sending taxpayers money in support of an unelected government intent on using its army against its own people.

    • Fencesitter

      What about the treaty we and the Yanks (and Russia) signed when Ukraine relinquished its nuclear stockpile?

      • Lungfish

        I think we should quietly sweep that under the carpet . The last thing we want is a dust up with the hard as nails Russians. Call me an appeasing yellow bellied coward if you want but we shouldn’t get involved.
        I would be quite keen on investing heavily in fracking so we wouldn’t have to keep giving the gangsters all our money.

  • sarahsmith232

    Spot on Liddle dear. E.g of the ‘progressive’ ‘liberal’ New World Order group think at work. They have so limited and insular an association with what they would describe their ‘arc of a moral universe’ that Ukraine can become such simple minded, black and white, good and evil issue. A Ukip landslide come May the 22nd will give the Cameron and Co’ arm of this mindset a good kicking, will be to no avail though, only further convince them of the idea that they’re governing in even more of nation of thick, uneducated, swivel eyed sorts than they originally presumed.

  • FF42

    It’s worth setting out the facts. A democratically elected president was impeached by a democratically elected parliament, as they were entitled to do under an constitution that was illegally ripped up by said president. Apart from getting himself elected, there is nothing democratic or even legal about Viktor Yanukovich. Perversion of the Constitution, the wholesale corruption of the judiciary, locking up political opponents on trumped charges and then beating them, ordering extra-judicial murders and robbing Ukraine of about 10% of its GDP for his personal gain: these are just some of his crimes.

    In any reasonable jurisdiction this man should not just be out of office; he should be behind bars.

    • sarahsmith232

      All of that would be an accurate justification of his ousting if the previous gov’ hadn’t also been getting up to the exact same game. But the last lot was pro EU and anti Putin, so were supported.
      Personally, I’d support the ousters, I think they did the right thing, the country was being dragged back into Russia’s sphere of influence, something that would have seen intolerable to the ousters. Where people become stupid on the matter though, is to not apply the same standard to the pro Russian parts. Their country being dragged into the so called ‘progressive’ EU is also absolutely intolerable for them, and they certainly haven’t been voting for it either.
      For me, I can’t help but think that we all need to watch and be very afraid ’cause this is a country that’s divided on ethnic grounds, this is what easily takes place in those countries. No reason to presume we’re not heading down the same path.

    • arnoldo87

      At last some common sense on this thread. History will show Putin to be an undemocratic, egotistical thug.

  • delboy

    Some hints for the direction of a moral compass

    I left for the north already in a state of confusion over our support for a mob which overthrew a democratically elected government, even if it was a crap government.

    A government that shot some 80 demonstrators. It’s own people.

    This was ‘people power’, though, apparently – and that makes it all right. But now there are insurrections in the east of the country – and yet these are apparently the work of thugs and recidivists and we have enjoined the illegal Kiev government to crack down on them with great vigour.

    Enjoined? as in urged? With sanctions such as not permitting Putin’s judo partner to travel to London?

    Russia is behind it all, we are told – and I don’t doubt that there are Russian agents at work. But is anyone doubting the aspirations of the people in the east of the country?

    Which aspirations are these? Do you mean to join Russia?

    And are they not more legitimate than those of the people in the west of the country, seeing that they simply resented watching a democratically elected government, which had their full support, overthrown with the encouragement and possibly assistance of the western powers?

    No, they are not more legitimate. Joining Russia is not the same as staying independent nor even joining the EU.

    It seems to me that we have lost our moral compass. Perhaps Clarks could manufacture some more of those shoes which used to have a compass in the heel, then we’d all know where we stand.

    I think they would need GPS for that.

  • Jez

    Same s*** different ****holes Rod.

    Very rich greedy people want to push it to the brink.

    They do not ever seem to care about the human cost when it inevitably tips- then spends the decade (or ten) after their engineered catalyst, employing lackeys to distort the truth, minimize the drawn chaos, loss of life and utter misery it leaves.

    A bit like you’ve done in the past with Rhodesia.

  • John Court

    There is a big difference between the protests that led to the last government leaving, and these more recent seizures of government buildings and airbases by armed paramilitaries. The Ukrainian government is entitled to require that these troops surrender or face attack. Once they have disarmed then as civilians they can protest peacefully and demand a referendum, and if the Ukrainian government decides to get heavy handed with them (as the last government did) then at that point it would be hard to criticise Putin for intervening.

    • Wessex Man

      Did you not see the News showing Ukrainan Paras sent to ‘sort out’ the ‘paramilitaries giving them their weapons? or don’t you care?

  • HY

    Journalists speaking of moral compasses? Christ almighty, things must be bad!

  • allymax bruce

    Rod, I’m inclined to think the EU, as a Political Entity, has run out of its own time; the ‘model’ the Neo-Con Zionists had for it 20 years ago, has seen ‘events’ overtake their purpose for it. It’s a bit like Tesco’s today; 20 years ago, Tesco’s seen a good opportunity in the marketplace, to open a ‘middle-market’ food/grocery chain store. Thus, it did, and in the next 15 years, Tesco’s made billions of profits every year. Now, because of the ‘economic’ conditions, a ‘middle-market’ food/grocery chain, is no longer ‘economically’ viable; well, if its profits your looking for! The discount stores like Morrissons, Lidl, and etc, are now taking the business from Tesco’s. As such, the EU, also has run past its ‘sell-by’ date; and ‘political events/ethos’, are now overtaking the EU’s past premise. Functionally, the EU is exactly like Tesco’s; about to be reduced in its original premise, and taken-over by quickly changing 21st century ‘political events’. The Neo-Con Zionists have lost control of their own EU ‘political entity’, and the EU Member Nation-States, are beginning to take control of it!

    Compare and contrast; Barosso, with Farage.

    • gerontius

      Allymax ,
      What is it with the Zionists?

      • Wessex Man

        That’s what I was goingto ask him but the rest of what he says is spot on!

      • saffrin

        Few tend to be jewish.

        • allymax bruce

          yeh-man; it’s politics!

      • allymax bruce

        Geeze a break man!
        It’s politics; stop taking everything to heart.
        I’m not even thinking anything other than functional and ideological politics.

        • gerontius

          “Geeze a break man!”
          Not inclined to give you break you racist creep

          • allymax bruce

            Good, that means I can go on zapping yoos Zionists !
            And, if anybody is racsit, it’s yor nasty Homeland lot! And the whole world knows it now !

            • gerontius

              Crawl back under your stone and sniff your jackboots in private Brucie,
              We thought we’d finished you lot off in the Bunker in ’45. Guess we’ll have to do it all over again

      • allymax bruce

        What’s with your dis-ease ?

  • Garry

    William Hague would certainly suit a pair of pathfinders and whatever the rights and wrongs of this situation (and it is certainly more complex than our Media are letting on) you look at Cameron and Hague and then look at Putin and Lavrov ..and you can’t help thinking..God help us! Boys against men springs to mind.

  • black11hawk

    This is the big problem with this whole EUSSR nonsense you get from UKIP. Lord knows the EU has many faults, it’s undemocratic, produces tons of barmy regulation and is quasi-socialist in nature, but it is not an oppressive regime in the way that the Soviet Union was. But it is exactly in that vein that some people, including Nigel Farage, have tried to portray its role in the Ukraine crisis. It seems as though they’re sticking to the old maxim that my enemy’s enemy is my friend, as though supporting Putin’s role in Ukraine will help bring about the fall of the EU, well dream on comrades, for all its faults the EU is no Soviet Union and you’ll look back at this and laugh at how foolish you all were.

    • Keith D

      Its not oppressive in the sense that you can be sent to a Gulag for not toeing the party line. It is oppressive in that it seeks to impose the will of minorities over the incumbent population and has succeeded in creating parallel societies in each of its member States.

      Its also expansionist in nature, as ever increasing swathes of the former Soviet Bloc are enticed, then admitted. What else would you call it ?

      It has sought , and succeeded in accumulating ever more powers to the bureaucracy a la Kremlin style in a completely undemocratic fashion, or do you remember voting for a Superstate rather than a Common Market?

      Neither do I.

      These unelected apparatchiks have done untold harm to the interests of their electorates, all protected by a compliant MSM. Very Pravda.

      Unrest was fomented in the Ukraine posing a difficult question for Russia.Do they accept the rather unsavoury new anti Russian Govt in Kiev, or do they intervene to protect their own people?.

      I’m by no means saying I approve of Putins methods, i dont, but he’s far from the instigator of this disaster.

      The EU have managed to alienate our chief gas supplier and potential ally in the war we all know is coming against an evil far worse than Russian interventionism.

      • RobvsNature

        We don’t need Russia to supply us with Gas. And as much as I would like to leave the EU it is not (for all it’s faults) in any way as bad as Putin’s Russia. Vlad has basically restarted the Cold War with his expansionist agenda. The West will need to respond.Sadly, I think we’re hampered by possibly the worst US President in history on foreign policy.

        • Wessex Man

          you go and fight any war you like but don’t ask the rest of us to join in! Keith D is right in everything he states, what an Earth was one Catherine Ashton, the British unelected Grand Commissioner of External Affairs doing out there encouraging ‘The Revolution’ before Russia reacted?

          I was one the few who voted no get out of the EEC back in the day. None of have ever been asked if we want our Parliament to be subservient to the EU. We never asked to be included in the EU nor to have these unelected Commissiners rule us.

          Ask yourself what would we have done if the Soviet Bloc had invited the newly Independent Scotland to join them?

          The EUSSR has tried to gobble up all of Eastern Europe and now we are reaping the consequences, they should hang their heads in shame and we should get of Empire as Barroso refers to it!

        • saffrin

          ‘Vlad has basically restarted the Cold War with his expansionist agenda’
          Vlad has protected his national security after the unelected EU politburo expansionists forcibly removed the democratically elected Prime Minister from a neighbouring country.
          If anyone has reignited the Cold war it is those the ‘West’ never elected.

          • McRobbie

            More putin the war mongerer was ukranians who kicked a corrupt and self serving PM out and he ran for cover to his mates in putin land. Any PM who ends up with a mansion with a golf course and a zoo plus enormous amounts in secret bank accounts is not a good fellow to lead a country out of economic problems and the ELECTED ukranian parliament with the support of ukrainian people had had enough. However the ex PM’s puppet masters aren’t happy and so putin resorts to force to get his way. Its nothing to do with the EU or USA,,it’s to do with an end to corruption and that wont ever come from putins oligarch run russia. Russia had signed treaties with ukraine which they arbitrarily tore up…the message is dont trust any agreement signed by a russian…dont trust russia.

            • Wessex Man

              Do you really believe everything the Commissioners spout? Elections were a few weeks away, if you are such a democrat surely you would be able to see that a fair free election were preferable than an armed insurrection, or were you as worried as the EU that the election wouldn’t provide the Government you wanted?

              If Putin sent one of his expendable folowers to the newly Independent Scotland provided they vote for independence, with promses of riches if they join Russia, I’m sure even Call me Dave would intervene, just as Putin has after the Jolly Catherine Ashton visited with her promises of wealth!

            • saffrin

              Brussels men have been inspiring public unrest in the Ukraine with their lies and bribery with money and offers of EU membership.
              The elected Ukrainian PM rejected them so EU inspired rebels turned to public disorder and violence.
              If the Ukrainians you support were in a majority they could have rid their country of their PM by way of the ballot box.
              But then as you admit you don’t trust Russia, I’m sure the Brussels men can tell you anything and you’d fall for it.

              The EU have proven beyond doubt it is anti-democratic with its refusal to recognise Irelands NO regards the Lisbon Treaty and if that isn’t enough, how about the ousting of both the Italian and Greek PM’s?
              As for your warmongering jibe, how do you explain the EU’s stance on Mali, Libya, Egypt and Syria when it was Putin that stopped Brussels’ war after the World sat by and watched them murder Gaddafi in Libya??

            • komment

              You are right of course not. Victoria Nuland was simply the tea lady handing out the scones and the cookies in Maid an whilst her cohort John Mc Cain, gub-runner extraordinaire and part time US Senator was the MC for the party. Get real.

            • Mountainman

              Sounds like Blair

          • Frank

            Yes, Vlad has protected his national security because that nasty EU was about to send its tanks all over his lovely lawn! Absurd.

            • saffrin

              You need to try thinking things through yourself once in a while and stop believing the Governments propaganda.

              Vlad only recently stopped the West unjustifiably bombing Syria. Given the west’s warmongering stance these last twenty years, Iraq, Afghanistan and all across the
              N/African coast, Vlad would be foolish not to protect his boarders now the USA and EU have targeted the Ukraine as their latest conquest.
              The USA and EU have done nothing but support
              insurrection and terrorism across the World while at the same time dressing it up for public consumption as a war on terrorists.

              The USA and the EU support Israel remember. A
              people that invaded a peaceful country some sixty years ago and have consistently murdered Palestinians with high tech armaments ever since.
              Any attempt the Palestinians make to defend themselves against this murderous invasion is no doubt called terrorism by idiots like you.

            • logdon

              I agree. What were they thinking?

              That he’d roll over just like the rest of the EU dhimmis?

      • black11hawk

        On the issue of respecting the rights of minorities over the majority, I would say that the EU was a late-comer to this issue and simply codified on a European level what the member states had already legislated for at a national level. Although I am by no means a fan of ‘equalities’ legislation.

        Its expansionist, yes, but its expansion to the East has brought untold benefits for many Eastern European nations. Its helped to consolidate their fragile institutions and has seen their economies soar ahead of their non-EU neighbours, thanks to single market access (just look at the disparity between Poland and Ukraine, despite Ukraine arguably having been in a better position during the breakup of the Soviet Union).

        I am too young to have had a vote on membership of the EU or indeed the common market, but I am unsure how I would vote now. Yes, there is a lot of ghastly legislation emanating from Brussels, but there are also manifest benefits, such as single market access, the ability to live anywhere within the EU without a visa, having a greater voice on the world stage (and whatever you say, Tokyo, Washington, Beijing and others take the EU more seriously than they do the government of the third largest economy in Europe).

        I think you’re downplaying Putin’s role in this conflict too, after all who was it who sent in Russian troops to Crimea? Also, the new government in Ukraine do seem at least marginally better than Yanukovich and considering the state of Ukrainian democracy who’s to say that he really was democratically elected, there are many reports of vote-rigging and other malpractice from past Ukrainian elections.

        Finally, what is this great new war you see coming? And why would we need Putin as an ally in that war?

        • Keith D

          I’ve got no issues with minorities having equality. I’m a
          strong supporter of that unless a minority proves a danger to my family in my
          country, and when its exacerbated by our elites who fete and encourage that
          minority to marginalise the rest of us.

          We may not have Ivan Denisovich type Gulags for dissenters,
          but we certainly have EU inspired directives that can cost you your job or liberty if deemed incorrect politically.

          Theres a strong exreme right element in the Ukraine and given Russian history its hardly surprising they’re worried. Do you think Putin intervened because he wanted a fight with the West?. Whatever he is he’s a
          practical man, and I’d be amazed if he acted the way he has if he thought there was a more viable, diplomatic option.

          Of course the Eastward expansion has been beneficial to the
          former Warsaw Pact states, and to us in that we no longer have a divided Europe. But a semblance of
          realpolitik would have cautioned against further expansion as the Russians were already a bit crusty about its former client states joining the Superstate.

          Re our voice on the world stage, we, and France are
          permanent members of the Security Council, not everything, thank goodness, is measured in economic terms. Self respect gets you a voice, and even if the EU
          has a greater voice, are they representing our views?

          Certainly not mine.

          The next war was the wrong term as it has of course already started, if you dont see it spilling onto the streets of Europe more than it has already then I cant help that. But its coming.

        • sarahsmith232

          I think you’re wrong on the rights thing. We and Germany are being prosecuted because of trying to block a newcomers ability to start claiming benefits as soon as they arrive. A few years back the Labour gov’ was prosecuted for trying to stop a Somalian woman demanding she be housed in an expensive part of London.
          This country is being dragged into giving rights to people that we don’t believe they deserve, it’s not the nation state gov’ that’s responsible but the international obligations.

          • black11hawk

            Sarah, the foundations for all that stuff were laid in the UK by UK politicians. You can see if you look at France, which defends freedom of speech far more vehemently than we do nowadays (e.g. the French government stood by Charlie Hebdo when they published the Mohammed cartoons), that there are different standards in different EU member states.

            • sarahsmith232

              But then can’t a counter argument to this run – but rights have to be constantly evolving, ones fixed rigidly in stone based on a response to issues thrown up by early 20th century history are obsolete. Yet the Human Rights lobby will argue that we can’t pull out of the HR Act ’cause of the bad e.g it will set to parts of the world like Kazakhstan and Russia. 2 parts of the world still stuck in that era.
              It’s neither here nor there what we felt about the kind of rights which were a response to Hitler, the issues we face today exist in a different universe. We can’t respond at a national level ’cause of the international obligations, those obligations have long since become obsolete. We def’ need to become a more sovereign nation state again.

    • XH558

      I take your point, but the key phrase for me is not an oppressive regime in the way that the Soviet Union was.. It is not oppressive in that way, but there are alternatives to that model and (for reasons I won’t bore you with, because you probably know what I would say),I think that the EU operates one of them. My own view is that the role of the EU in the Ukraine has been driven by a combination of ambition and naivety. I believe that it has done immense harm there, but I think that the consequences of that will be suffered by the people of Ukraine rather than by the EU itself. Those who make decisions in the EU operate in a consequence-free zone. This won’t hurt them, and I do not know precisely what may eventually do so. I only hope that, sooner or later they can be brought down..

    • saffrin

      Any positively anti-democratic regime is an oppressive regime. Especially those with an annual £22 billion propaganda fund.
      EUSSR is most appropriate.

      • black11hawk

        The EU does not operate gulags or a secret police force or imprison its citizens for criticising its structures. If this really were the new USSR you’d have the state bureau of political enforcement on their way round to your house right now to arrest you and stick you in jail for the next 20 years. The comparison is frankly ridiculous.

        • saffrin

          Homophobia and inspiring racial hatred are both imprisonable offences.
          Objecting to queers adopting children is considered by some, including queers, to be homophobic.
          Objecting to the UK being flooded with immigrants while the UK already has a multi-million unemployment mountain is, by some, considered inspiring racial hatred.
          Even flying a Union Jack from an open market stall is seen as racist in some Labour Council areas and has led to stall holders being threatened with removal.

          EUSSR. Thought police are everywhere, CCTV on every corner, e-mails and phone calls recorded.

          • black11hawk

            Yeah but basically all of the things you mention are illegal due to legislation passed by Westminster rather than the EU.

            In any case there is no need to be gratuitously rude, you could have made the exact same point without calling homosexual people ‘queers’. I don’t think you should be jailed for it, but it does say something about your personality.

            • saffrin

              Your comment says even more about your personality of
              objecting to my labeling homosexuals as ‘queers’ yet say nothing about the point they are adopting little kids.

              • black11hawk

                I’d didn’t say anything because it’s beside the point, but if you insist upon knowing I am opposed to adoption by gay couples, but I don’t think that means we should deliberately go out of our way to be rude about them. In any case you dodged the point about the legislation actually coming from Westminster rather than the EU. Most of it was brought in by Roy Jenkins in the 70’s and then added to by Blair during his term.

                • Wessex Man

                  are you Nick Clegg in disguise?

                • black11hawk

                  lol, No way, I probably broadly agree with you on most issues, I believe in a small state, absolute freedom of speech, equality before the law and all that. As I mentioned above there are many things I find unsatisfactory about the EU, but I don’t think it’s responsible for all the evils of the world as some UKIP supporters do.

                  On the matter of Saffrin using the word ‘queer’, if you deliberate try to insult people whilst making your point it helps those people who would like to curtail freedom of speech further, because it makes it easier for them to portray you as a racist, sexist, homophobe or whatever. I have to say I find his tone rude, but obviously that is not grounds for imprisonment which is the way many on the statist side of the argument would see it.

            • Wessex Man

              oh for heavens sake!

        • Wessex Man

          I suggest that you check out the Commissioners Toleration Directive, which states that it is right to be intolerant of those considered to be intolerant.

          If you can bear to read past the deliberate babble, you will see that means me, you and anyone who expresses an opinion different to theirs!

  • FrankieThompson

    Pathfinders, I think they were called.

    Obama, Cameron, Hague , Hollande…Ashton could certainly do with finding a path out of the political mess they have caused in Ukraine.

    • gerontius

      Yeah, I vaguely remember Pathfinders. I was too old, but I’m sure my little brother had a pair. He used to fall on his face every time he tried to read his moral direction.

    • AndrewMelville

      I loved those shoes when I was a kid. They also had animal

  • Eyesee

    Not only that, but we would be able to recognise various animal prints, another skill sadly lost in these less moral, less educated times.

Can't find your Web ID? Click here