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Is eastern European immigration a result of the working class being demonised?

16 August 2013

We had a Bulgarian chap do up our house. Lovely guy, worked all day and never wanted a break, and I didn’t have to drop my aitches or pretend to like football around him. Actually he turned out to be Polish but after weeks of me asking questions about Bulgaria he presumably felt too embarrassed and just played along with it.

But there are many Bulgarians working in north London, and Birmingham, and they tend to be quite skilled, there being restrictions on who can work here. Naturally as those restrictions are removed, and as the quantity of immigration goes up, the quality goes down.

MigrationWatch claim that net migration from Romanian and Bulgaria will be 50,000 every year for the next five years, and the group were pretty accurate in predicting the 2004 A8 influx. Since then things have changed a bit and fewer jobs are available, and lots of those eager Polish workers can now be found hanging around the park, drinking Lech and presumably too ashamed to go back.

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The economic arguments for opening yet another border now seem pretty thin, but as I’ve always said, the economic question about immigration involves pretty marginal costs or benefits; the real debate is social and emotional.

And although Labour has been rightly criticised for its hypocrisy, the open borders ideology is not necessarily a leftie thing; it tends to be libertarian and centrist, and attracts quite a few Tories, despite it being the sort of abstract idea Burke hated.

It’s also elitist, in that open borders can be felt most at the top and bottom of society: the best schools and the best neighbourhoods tend to be those with a fairly low proportion of white Britons; but so do the worst. Diversity is one of the reasons why immigration in the US is making the country more Latin American in its inequality levels.

And without getting too Owen Jones, I suspect that one of the reasons why some Tories are keen on Bulgarian workers is that they’ve developed a dislike for the British working class, and without the mindset that allowed us to make so many working-class people redundant in the 1980s this new upheaval would not be possible.

But it all seems rather short-sighted. Recruiting highly-qualified workers with specific skills or talents will almost certainly benefit the economy, although it does have the secondary effect of allowing us to ignore structural and educational weaknesses at home. But an open door that allows access to people who may or may not be more skilled or intelligent than the population at large will not by itself improve the economy, only expand it into a bubble. And highly-motivated but low-skilled foreign workers will not necessarily produce highly-motivated children, who will instead have the same outlook and expectations as other British-born people, an aspect almost routinely ignored.

In fact one of Britain’s big problems is that it loses too many highly-educated natives, more than it has attracted from overseas; much of that drain has to do with Britain’s relative unattractiveness as a place to bring up children, something that a 70 million population will probably not improve.

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Show comments
  • billy fish

    As much as I hate to spout out about things, I think – as do many now, that enough is enough :-( The phrase of Proud To Be British is now history. I live in Cheshire, a small town where we’ve takin in soooo many east europe vagabonds not to mention all the the asians we had arive 4 years before then, I and all other locals ask now – Where is the English language? I never hear it, not once in days. Only loud, brash and lazy (hanging around on our streets all day long laughing and shouting, drunk and aggresive in their gestures) members of the EU (as brussels enjoys calling them), well anyway, the streets are full of them. My own language has become as rare as employment it seems !!

    England, like other places, had to fight for hundreds of years to get where we ‘where’ – able to sustain an economy, not perfect, but it worked 75% of the time. And now? We are steeping back in time 120 years to degredation of society :-( Theft and bad behaviour, untrustworthy, loutish, lost and unemployed fighting with poverty, that is what the UK has now become :-( I feel sad for the solders and families of past generations who may live to see such a world around them. They fought and struggled so that imigrants could jump 100 years of evolution to be rich (in their terms) and do as they please. Major failure in this land, this really is.

  • Thor fenris

    The Polish thing has backfired on Labour a bit because Poles tend to be virulently anti left, especially the harder working ones who are likely to come here. They are generally pretty outspoken on their attitudes to to some of the more obvious new commonwealth immigrants too.

    • Karla’s Man

      They might be conservative at home, in their own natural environments, but for their own self-serving reasons, most foreigners to a foreign Country act like Lefties. The Polish do NOT have the vote in the General Election anyway—NOR SHOULD THEY. I think that Labour would had tried to change the British Nationality Act and the Representation of the People Act to give Europeans the vote, if they had stayed in power for long enough.

      Most of the new arrivals these days are from Somalia, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Djibouti, Afghanistan, Iran, the Middle East, Turkey, Egypt, the Sudan and North Africa, which are not part of the Commonwealth, through the political asylum and refugee system.

      • Thor fenris

        The Poles can vote in local and European elections. Most immigrants might well vote Labour but Poles aren’t doing so.
        Being white and hard working poles have nothing to gain from Labour.

        • Karla’s Man

          The People hates their direct competitors for jobs than scroungers even more, you would find. White or not, they are still a race of their own in England. With cheap coaches, ferries, budget airlines, and without the Iron Curtain, the ease of travel probably means that they would probably never integrate properly, nor would they have to, in England.

          • Fak_Zakaix

            “With cheap coaches, ferries, budget airlines, and without the Iron Curtain, the ease of travel probably means that they would probably never integrate properly, nor would they have to, in England.”
            So you must like them then.

            • Karla’s Man

              Why? They take the jobs away from the working men of this Country! Why can’t they do that in their own neighbouring Countries, such as the Belarus or the Ukraine?

              Mind you, the Irish Travellers of Dale Farm were Whites too!

              • Fak_Zakaix

                Then don’t employ them. Ed West acknowledged that eastern Europeans are cheaper than the British workers.
                Would you reject the services of a Jewish, Indian or Greek lawyer, medic or architect just because they are foreigners?
                I my guess is that you will look for the best your money can buy.
                If xenophobia was the prevailing attitude among Britons then it would be very difficult to explain how so many foreigners found a place in British society (as professionals I mean). Yes, yes, professionals.
                What I meant in my previous post is that a xenophobe (for a better word) would like immigrants that will go back home after a while. That is, will prefer Romanians to Jamaicans.

          • Thor fenris

            They are not a race. They are the same race as the English and in a gneration they will just merge.

            • George Smiley

              But do you want England to be England, or New Poland?

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            people hate, China boy.

            • George Smiley

              “La peuple” … 300 years ago, the term “people” following the French usage almost always went with the article, “but then you are a Japanese who think just because you are an “Asian” and wear a pair of glasses therefore you are somehow cleverer than everyone else” and all that assorted nonsense. Are you SO educated that you in fact never actually read a book published before the 1940s?! Is YouTube down somehow?

              • Jackthesmilingblack

                Excuses are like assholes, Jock. Everybody got one.
                “but then you are a Japanese who think just because you are an “Asian””

                “Who thinks”, China boy. Admit it, you’re half British at best.
                Jack, the Japan Alps Brit

                • George Smiley

                  I am about as Chinese as Chinese Gordon! In your neck of the woods perhaps, but over here in England, there is nothing too wrong with being a Chinese, but I am not a Chinese, am I?! Calling me a Chinese is certainly neither “an accusation” of any sort or remotely “libellous” in England; mind you, it just makes you a little obsessive and just a little demented though, of course!

                  Resurrecting a 10-month-old-or-so article to troll—I mean, but just how bored you must be! If you were actually British (which you are most certainly not), you would had realised that this is firmly the British Summer Silly Season, when the journalists are out on their holidays, and their unpaid interns leave for real, paid work; and you would had just gone down to to an Irish Pub in Tokyo—but then it is NEVER just about being able to read, write, listen to and speak the language though, is it?!

      • Fak_Zakaix

        “…but for their own self-serving reasons, most foreigners to a foreign Country act like Lefties.”
        You must have in mind the Jews, isn’t it?

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Spectator, Press Club, Tokyo. Set a date.
    “Jack comes in from the cold”
    Let`s settle whether I`m Japanese or a Caucasian Brit once and for all.
    Would make a good lead in for an article on obsessive cyber stalkers, and the MSM`s perceived responsibility. Also a promising doctorate thesis field for psychology candidates. “Personality problems beyond the dreams of analysts.” Specific how the deranged ultranationalist xenophobic racist bigot, unable to handle any implicit or implied criticism of Britain, squares the circle by assigning a totally different nationality and ethnicity to any negative commentator. And then explicitly define who is eligible to contribute on the blog pages on a UK based MSM publication. You might want to liaise with Social Services. Ask yourselves, “When cyber stalking no longer satisfies, how long before the terminally obsessed turn to the real thing. And what would be your culpability? The Judge might have a few harsh words.

    • Karla’s Man

      @edwest:disqus: It seems that our old troll banished from the Daily and Sunday Telegraph has not travelled very far, has he?

      @Jackthesmilingblack:disqus: You know that you can’t! You don’t even have a birth certificate! Even a British person born in Japan has a British birth certificate! Why are you so desperately trying to become “one of our own” and comment on OUR (not your) politics when you, being a foreigner, born and bred, and living abroad, would never be accepted as “one of the boys”?

  • Fak_Zakaix

    If you are such a great patriot why didn’t you employ a British worker? Don’t tell me that you couldn’t find one. What? They are more pricy? Ahaaa.

  • WorthSayingAgain

    The costs aren’t marginal Ed. It costs a fortune to provide immigrants with schools, health care, child allowance, tax credits etc etc. and another fortune to pay an equivilent British family not to have employment.

  • Fak_Zakaix

    “Actually he turned out to be Polish but after weeks of me asking questions about Bulgaria he presumably felt too embarrassed and just played along with it.”
    I think you were the embarrassed one when you realised that he made a fool of you by pretending to be Bulgarian. Ha, ha.

  • Venk Shenoi

    Spot on – good and honest analysis.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Anyone seen my deranged stalker, Mac-the-Mouth? Told me over 100 times that I`m Japanese, which makes him a fool times 100 plus.
    Don`t you have a minimum sanity requirement, Spectator?

    • Karla’s Man

      I have said this probably over a hundred times, and I am going to say this once more: you are a Japanese, and living in your own Country. There is not a single bone in you that is British. Almost literally everything you write is about Japan, and anything about “your” so-called “own Country” (that supposedly gave you an education and its Queen supposedly gives you a passport) is either negative or downright abusive.

      A Brit is not a Brit if he has no British ancestors. Commentating on something that doesn’t personally concern you—isn’t that called trolling?

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Not my problem, Britisher pals. May I suggest you take the necessary steps to ensure it`s no longer yours?
    Jack, Japan Alps

    • Karla’s Man


      I don’t get it! Why are you, a Japanese living in his own Country, so concerned about England and the goings on therein? Why are you even commentating on this story, or indeed on any other part of this site?

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        Who are the two other idiots that recommended Mad Jock McNutter? Unless he’s found a way of recommending himself more than once.

  • Denis_Cooper

    The Tories have never had a high opinion of the British working class, but were aware that they needed them. Now they don’t need them so much, they can exploit the working classes of other countries and have no compunction about doing so.


    Real Marxist countries educated their children. Wannabe Marxist countries subverted their educational establishments. Hence non-Communist Britain relies on ex-Communist countries for talent and the Protestant work ethic. You really couldn’t make it up.

    • vieuxceps2

      “Real Marxist countries”-Where were they then?


        Poland, Czechoslaovakia, Lithuania, etc etc. As any fule kno.

        • Colonel Mustard

          Ha ha ha ha ha! Truly a “fule” in your case.

          • PAUL WESTON

            Are you suggesting I am wrong about this? Prior to 1989 in Czechoslovakia for example, their educational establishment was obviously run along Marxist lines. But having had their revolution, the childrten were not used to undermine the country but to strengthen it. Czech children were taught in what can only be termed an “elitist” environment and were streets ahead of their British counterparts, who were taught in an “anti-elitist” environment by left-wing teachers, many of them Marxists. This still exists today and only a total half-wit could fail to see the huge difference between the two. Czechs were taught grammar, numeracy, spelling and pride in their country that would have caused outrage amongst members of the NUT. It’s really very simple, Marxists undermined our educational system to such an extent that many of our poor children are unable to work in jobs requiring literacy, numeracy and charm – hence the influx of Poles, Czechs etc, who are astonished by the “Communistisation” of our teaching profession. There are reams of info about this, whilst Colonel Mustard just laughs at the idea, in the typical left-wing fashion of abuse and sneering with no real, factual counter-argument.

            • Colonel Mustard

              I’m not left-wing. The countries you mention were then within the Warsaw pact and governed by oppressive Soviet-style communist governments. The education ethos you describe was in spite of the government not because of it. In fact there were concerted efforts by the government to enforce ideological purity in schools and secondary education was conditional upon political compliance. A “soft” version of what we have seen here.

              In 1993 the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia (KCS) was declared to be a criminal organisation. During its period of rule it implemented policies of preferential admissions to secondary school and university for those considered ideologically sound. As in the Soviet Union party membership and association conferred social mobility and advantage – a trait imitated by the New Labour regime.

              Marxism doesn’t come into it and never did. It was pure political elitism and oppression.

              • PAUL WESTON

                Of course “Ideological purity” was enforced, but that is hardly the point. In fact, the same could be said here as well, but we call it political correctness rather than ideological purity….The only point is that Marxist teachers in Marxist countries actually educated the children in the basics, fully aware that illiterate and innumerate slobs were unlikely to benefit the country. The polar opposite happened in Britain, where Marxist teachers denied our children an education, precisely because they could then be used as their political pawns in later life. What possible use to the Left are educated, happy, married, reasonable earning adults with a few children? They would just become Conservatives!

  • evad666

    Is eastern European immigration a result of the working class being demonized?
    No it is an excuse for the liberal elite chatterati to further marginalise the white working class

  • The_greyhound

    The white working class were good enough for fighting two world wars. The political class, Labour and Tory, have since decided they could do better and cheaper elsewhere.

    Remember Mandelson opposing an increase in the old age pension under the last Government? Don’t bother Mandelson said – the OAPs are racist and don’t vote Labour.

    • blindsticks

      The British Army – still doing the jobs the immigrants are too lazy to do .

    • sarahsmith232

      when in the **** did the piece of **** say it! where did he say it? is this quoted somewhere? some ****ing piece of Labour party piece of crap said something similar in the 90s when it became evident that the priority needs system was forcing the white working-class out of Tower Hamlets due to immigration. quote ‘well, they’re all racist and they vote Tory’ was the Labour MP’s response. this was in the book ‘The New East End’, they quote him but don’t name him. I can’t find out who it was, if it was that piece of twisted **** it wouldn’t ****ing surprise me.

  • blindsticks

    Ed West: the best schools and the best neighbourhoods tend to be those with a fairly low proportion of white Britons;

    Can someone explain this?

    • Karla’s Man

      No, he can’t, unless he were referring to Central London.

      • David Sanderson

        Or Brixton. Moss side, Tower Hamlets etc.

  • andagain

    But an open door that allows access to people who may or may not be more
    skilled or intelligent than the population at large will not by itself
    improve the economy

    It means there will be more producers and more consumers. So yes, it does mean the economy will be larger.

  • Framer

    This is the number of new national insurance numbers provided to foreign nationals over four recent years:

    2006 633,000
    2007 796,000
    2008 669,000
    2009 613,000

    That is over 2.5 million extra people and the figures exclude children, asylum
    seekers, non-working spouses and students!

    No country can cope with that rate of arrivals without internal strife eventually.

  • TonyB58

    Stating the obvious the Eastern European worker is happy because the wages he earns in this country actual makes a significant difference to his family’s standard of living back home.

    Also New Labour and the Left equally hate the white working-class; that’s why they opened our borders up to import cheap labour, votes and to provide lots of tax-payer funded jobs servicing the needs of “equality and diversity” for the Guardianistas. The Hard-left and Trots particularly hate us for not fulfilling our historic role, that is putting them in power!

  • anyfool

    Who are all the pickpockets and thieves infecting the major cities of Europe.
    We have a story here about how good Bulgarians and Romanians are in Birmingham and elsewhere, “wait till they pick your pocket” Mr West`s template for this praise happened to be a Pole.
    We get nonsense about British workers being poor and unmotivated, what these people spouting nonsense about British workers mean, is the lazy sponging idle welfare recipients they meet in the pub.
    These supposedly wonderful workers from Eastern Europe did not do much good in their own crappy countries, these countries are a monument to shoddy workmanship.
    What Mr West wants is triple A class workmanship for starvation wages.
    Like the people of this country who despise the good in Britain by conflating it with the Labour party client state, two entirely different things.

  • CortUK

    Erm….it was Gordon Brown and Labour who demonised the working class. Threw them on the scrapheap and pushed down their throats to keep them quiet and in their place while an army of cheap outsiders were brought in to undermine them.

    Remember Mrs Duffy?

  • davidhill

    Not really but the recent release of data with regard to the near 30,000 Romanian and Bulgarians who took up jobs in the UK from April to June this year is alarming to say the least, as full border restrictions are not lifted until later in the year. These numbers are equivalent to the overnight establishment of a city or town such as, Rugby, Mansfield, Darlington, Carlisle, Scarborough, Stroud, Cheltenham, Exeter, Gloucester or Cambridge every 12 months; and that’s just made up of Romanians and Bulgarians.

    Although there are all sorts of issues related again to such an influx of new people, it is the speed that this happens which is the most damaging outcome for a stable nation. In this respect new hospitals, schools, houses, power stations, utility services, sewage works and transport systems et al to support EU immigration have to be built and are not there overnight. They generally take decades to provide from initial planning and finance stage to finally built facility or human support service. This is where the great problem arises and where even today, after decades of immigration influx, successive governments haven’t learnt a thing. What should have happened when the EU went from an initial economic bloc concept to a pan-political bloc extravaganza with all that entails (something that the people of Europe never signed up to), was to allow trade to flourish equally between countries and nations to be developed to the same economic level over time but not to allow unrestricted immigration to continue infinitum. The reason, the most popular destinations such as the UK with free NHS on demand, cannot cope with such a sudden and unsupportable population boom as there is no pre-planning in place to support such a sudden and acute human event. Indeed, through this way of thinking the UK will always be fighting a rear-guard action that places huge hardship on the national purse and where support systems are just not there in the magnitude that is needed. It appears to me therefore that common-sense was never a part of the EU political project (never fully thought through) but where common-sense has never been a part of a politicians thinking now has it?

    Dr David Hill
    World Innovation Foundation

  • Austin Barry

    Our politicians, of all parties, just hate the electorate, never mind the working class: those recalcitrant, xenophobic, bolshie, seething, anti-foreign aid, anti-EU, Islamophobic, sneering bastards from state schools and third-rate universities who just happen to form the majority population of these islands.

    I mean, really, it’s a pity that every few years they have to seek the votes of these ghastly people, who just happen to be us.

  • Dan Grover

    I think the idea of it being economically “good” or “bad” is a bit simplistic – it depends entirely on who you are. There is, after all, a lot more to the economy than GDP. If you’re in a niche industry, you’re a business owner or involved in property, immigration is economically good for you. If you’re not one of those things, it’s bad for you, most likely.

    There’s a pretty decent parallel to be made with football here; The more foreign players that have gotten involved in the Premier League, the less English players get a shake of the stick, to the harm of our national team. That the Premier League is often considered the best in the world doesn’t do much to help our actual English players (and therefore team). That said, if you’re a Spurs fan, would you rather still have Scott Parker rather than Paulhino? It’s not as simple as “good” or “bad”.

  • Chris lancashire

    Your first paragraph says it all – these people are polite and hardworking. The obverse of this is the high numbers of British workers who have little motivation – firstly to get a job and then to do well and progress in it. As an employer of both I see this daily.
    I don’t pretend to have all the reasons but surely the motivation problem has something to do with low skills, poor education and an overly generous benefits system.

  • Noa

    “…In fact one of Britain’s big problems is that it loses too many
    highly-educated natives, more than it has attracted from overseas; much
    of that drain has to do with Britain’s relative unattractiveness as a
    place to bring up children, something that a 70 million population will
    probably not improve…”

    A key statement that is a subject for a separate debate Mr West.

    We are no longer able to retain our brightest and best. Our most valuable people leave for a better future, in the Anglosphere or elsewhere. The vacuum created is filled by makeweights from Europe and India, bribed with British passports to maintain the Socialist lumpen voter base, which is in turn steadily augmented by mass importation from Eastern Europe, Africa and the Indian sub continent.
    The end result is a country in the process of transformation from a nation to a de-skilled and ghettoised islamic sub region of the EU, it’s own equivalent of the ‘General government’, created in Poland in 1940.

  • Ron Todd

    Bring in millions of immigrants with a culture that is against rights and freedom especially for women. No wonder those that can want out.

    After Thatcher getting elected with the help of working class votes labour decided it should invite in a alternative working class.

  • Sue Ward

    And did he have all his insurances, was he properly qualified, did he have a CSCS card, was he SSIP H&S assured? Extensive remodelling work I have had done on my house recently has employed British tradesmen all of whom have been hard working and delivered an excellent build quality. Stop calling down British workmen.

    • Ed West

      I assume so. the firm was very reputable, established and British-based/Irish-owned. they werent cowboy-skis. Certainly I think the superiority of Polish workers is a bit of a myth otherwise. British tradesmen, builders, electricians, carpenters etc, are pretty damn good, but they are pricier.

  • FellowHQ

    The normally spot-on Mr West seems to have descended into the London elite bunker. Quibbling that some Tories may like bringing in Bulgarians is hardly the point. The Labour Party has not only been responsible for the massive and uncontrolled immigration, it’s also the party that has comprehensively abandoned the white working class. Abandoned it to the consequences of that mass immigration among other horrors. Why do you think UKIP is now the party of the working class white man?

  • Alexandrovich

    “…the best schools and the best neighbourhoods tend to be those with a fairly low proportion of white Britons.” Nope – I give up. I’ll re-read it, probably me.

    • Ed West

      Kensington has a low proportion of white Britons. global elite innit.

      • Dogsnob

        So Kensington is representative of the nation’s best schools and neighbourhoods?

    • Mr Grumpy

      In the A-level league tables the top state school is in Cambridge.

    • blindsticks

      Oh I’m not the only one not getting it.

  • Janet Webster

    So the native Brits are too lazy. Does that include the huge numbers of economically inactive natives of West Indian and Pakistani descent?

    • Ed West

      As I say: ‘And highly-motivated but low-skilled foreign workers will not necessarily produce highly-motivated children, who will instead have the same outlook and expectations as other British-born people, an aspect almost routinely ignored.’

      • Mr Grumpy

        I suspect it’s routinely ignored because noticing it tends to get you accused of racism. Though an American study which you may recall found higher levels of criminality among second generation immigrants than among the first generation in every single ethnic group.

      • WorthSayingAgain

        Not nice to hear that Ed. Very highly motivated British people here can’t get jobs as the whole ‘chain’ revolves around East Europeans being recruited. Hardly surprising given the narrow minded views being propagated by media types like Ed West.

        • David Sanderson

          All said without dropping his aitches or pretending to like football, cor blimey guv.

    • HookesLaw

      ‘Huge’ numbers?
      Is it you who have tried this one on before?
      Don’t make me go back to look it all up and prove you wrong.
      More hysteria.

      • Noa

        If you think you have a case to make disproving the comment, then make it.

        • anyfool

          He has no case, he is just like a Labour mouthpiece, if you cannot disprove or dislike a comment undermine the messenger, if that does not work call them racist.

    • David Sanderson

      The article begins with a class stereotype, ironic to say the least.

  • HookesLaw

    ‘And without getting too Owen Jones, I suspect that one of the reasons
    why some Tories are keen on Bulgarian workers is that they’ve developed a
    dislike for the British working class,’
    This is just one example of why this is a totally useless and disgusting article penned by someone who is not one tenth as clever and witty as he thinks he is.

  • sarahsmith232

    Migration Watch reckon ‘net migration’ will be 50,000 per year? sorry to be coming across as a nit picker but i’m going to go for this ’cause a lot on the Left like to bandy about the net figure. presumably ’cause they hope people will be lulled into thinking it’s the whole figure. i’m guessing Mig’ Watch prob’ didn’t say ‘net’ but said the whole figure will be, ’cause net doesn’t make sense. net would have to the net total after the Romanian and Bulgarian ones that arrive are subtracted from the Romanian + Bulg’ ones that leave in every 12month period, seeing that we’re not counting ANYONE in and out that can’t be. so they must have just said ‘every yr we’re going to get 50,000 in for at least 5yrs’, without mentioning anything being dependent on how many are leaving.
    I know that seems like i’m saying nothing but it’s just ’cause of the way that the Left will also do this when talking about immigration as an issue. as in ‘net migration is currently 160,000 per year’ and just . . er. . . ‘forget’ to mention that the entire yearly number is 550,000/600,000 per year, each and every yr, has been now for over 15yrs. that sounds terrifying, only mentioning the net number is intended to quieten people. talking about immigration in terms of net legitimises the net figure, so to the Spec’ writer, please don’t you, as well, do your bit.

    • HookesLaw

      If its 50,000 net then a gross migration figure will be higher won’t it?

      The last migration figure was in fact 500,000 down 80,000.
      The net figure includes former immigrants leaving.
      The migrant figure includes students who eventually leave (the govt have done much to close previous loopholes. It also includes UK citizens returning.
      The ONS say net long-term migration to the UK was 153,000 down from 242,000 the year before.

      I am not sure why you should be worried about French people coming to live and spend their money and pay their taxes here. I can see why Hollande would be.

      Once again of course we are being badly served by a hysterical press who consider themselves to be beyond independent legal regulation.

      • James Jones

        “The last migration figure was in fact 500,000”

        Ho ho ho.

        In fact –

        601,000 immigrants registered for new national insurance numbers in the same year that 515,000 total immigrants arrived.

        Someone cannot add up.

        It is now known that the 515,000 figure comes from a sample of a few thousand voluntary arrival interviews/questionnaires and is likely to be wildly inaccurate. As expected, it is clearly a gross underestimate since in addition to those needing NI numbers there are of course children and others who are economically inactive.

        Analyses of food sales carried out in 2007 suggest that at that time the population was between 77 and 80 million[1].


        • hepworth

          Statistics supported by sewage and water companies,
          (except for the fact that 82 million NI numbers are in circulation.)

          • Hexhamgeezer

            ……which demonstrates a significant level of fraud….

      • Smithersjones2013

        [Yawn] Oh Hooky how many times do you need to be told that the margin of error on that voodoo poll that the Home Office do on immigration is so large its quite possible net immigration could be rising even though they conveniently claim its falling. Lord knows how badly the Home Office have massaged (remember Beverly Hughes?) and miscalculated (by 500k) the immigration figures previously.

        There are lies, damned lies, statistics and……

        Home Office statistics

      • Damon

        You talk a lot of sense, and then ruin it all in the last paragraph when you refer to a, ‘press who consider themselves to be beyond independent legal regulation.’ And thank God they ARE beyond said regulation. A free press is one of the fundamental guarantors of a free society. If they sometimes abuse said freedom – oh dear, how sad, never mind.

        • Damon

          PS And the reason I value a free press so much, despite the concomitant inconveniences, is that I live in Russia.

      • Colonel Mustard

        There is statistics and then there is looking around you. Do you think we are blind as well as “nutjobs”? Round here the influx of foreigners good and bad – and still increasing – is bleedin’ obvious.

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        The datum you need is gross population turnover. Namely, immigration plus emigration. Not the simplest calculation I grant you. Then you`ll be able to calculate how long it will be before there are more of them than there are of you. So let`s call a spade a spade shall we. There are desirable immigrants and there are undesirable immigrants. And I think we all know who the dodgy ones are.
        As part of the US-led “Zionist-Crusader Alliance”, Britain`s at war with Islam. What could be more insane than opening the castle gates and inviting the enemy to come in and make themselves at home?

        • Guest

          Datum? Are you using mock Latin, now? When was the last time that “data” was not an uncountable noun?

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            Data is a plural noun. Datum is the singular, Mr. Ignoramus.

            • George Smiley

              Datum might be still a word in German, but not in English. Are you one of those billy-no-mates Orientals who learnt his English by swallowing a dictionary, and in whole?!

          • George Smiley

            Don’t bother! He is a Japanese Troll trying to pass off as a cheap pedant. The trouble with him is, he is not actually British, so he wouldn’t actually know what he is (or we are either) really talking about! They certainly look after their lunatics VERY WELL over there in Japan!

  • Ulysses Returns

    You may, Mr West,”suspect that one of the reasons why some Tories are keen on Bulgarian workers is that they’ve developed a dislike for the British working
    class,” but you are likely to be alone in that supposition. The fact is, most Tories are no more keen on Bulgarian workers than traditional labtard working class voters are. What we are also not keen on is the new omnipresent metrosexual class of chi-chi politicians and journalists assuming they know what we do or do not like, when very few of you lot have had to earn a living in the real world, as we have. For the record I believe the Poles, with their Christian culture, good work ethic, and their eagerness to assimilate, have been a positive contribution to the UK over the last 10 years. Having some experience of Bulgaria, I have a number of concerns, but these concerns pale into insignificance when it comes to the horrors that await us, with hordes of Romanians descending on our capital now and in ever increasing numbers from next year. You have been warned.

    • HookesLaw

      I suspect its the rich lefty liberals who are most keen on the skilled cheap labour thats available to them.
      It is indeed the lefty intellectuals who have no time for the working class – except that is to treat them like their tame lap dogs or some worthy charity like supporting a dogs home.

      • dalai guevara

        Who is part of this cannot be bothered working class that the Oasis chappy mentioned after the riots? Did he make it all up?

        • Wessex Man

          well you should know you were on here saying the same thing, or is that something else you’ve forgotten, change your pants change your views!

          • dalai guevara

            What pants, dude?
            You believe I am a Scot because I question devolution rhetoric.
            You believe I support windmill subsidies paid to a select number of beneficiaries just because these are the same scammers pushing to benefit from fracking.
            You believe I oppose capitalism just because I oppose privatised monopolies.
            You believe I support undue censorship and blatant snooping just because I do not oppose Leveson.
            You believe I support labour, just because Osborne, Cameron, May, Hunt and Gove are making a hack of it?

            You need to read every single one of my posts again.

            • the viceroy’s gin

              …I’d rather gargle with razor blades. I’d rather stick red hot needles in my eyesockets. I’d rather… well you get the point.

        • Dogsnob

          Would someone be kind enough to translate this please?

          • dalai guevara
            • Dogsnob

              Thank you. Every word Mr Gallagher speaks in that link I would agree with.

              • dalai guevara

                Yes, this chap is underrated – his analysis of the bottom end of our society has yet to be followed up with anything of gravitas.

                • the viceroy’s gin

                  …other than by you hardcore lefties, who want to import a lot more of it.

    • gladiolys

      “traditional labtard working class voters” – you make Ed’s point for him. And members of the said group include gays who work alongside straights in the “real world” – it is not just an issue for the “omnipresent metrosexual class of chi chi politicians”. By the way, where on earth did you pick up that phrase “chi chi”? I’ve not heard it much outside USA.

    • WorthSayingAgain

      Having experience of Romanians I can confirm Ulysess’s concerns.

    • Fak_Zakaix

      Yes, true, Roumanians are Muslims and dark skinned. They also like to play with bombs and marry their cousins. And they live in yurts, of course. “Hordes” was the correct word indeed.

      • Mujo67

        There are more Muslims in the UK than in Romania. Romanians are generally Orthodox Christians (as much as any Europeans are Christians these days). And you’re probably speaking of Roma, otherwise known as Gypsies, of which Romania has a fairly large population.

  • harmonicaman

    Lets not forget, the hundreds of thousands of people allowed in by Labour and now the Tories will all be entitled to vote in the alleged EU referendum, and Labour/Tory/Lib all want us to stay in. The British people want out, that taxpayers want out. But this is the gerrymandering Labouir dreamed of to change the face of England being carried on by Camerons alleged Tories to keep their EU dream alive.. Therein lies the rub.

    • HookesLaw

      EU citizens resident in the UK cannot vote in national elections.
      They can vote in local elections but how many are on the electoral register?

      • WorthSayingAgain

        HookesLaw, no proof of entitlement to vote is required on the form. Use the online electoral roll to look up some recent immigrants that you know personally. You’ll be surprised. Dare I say it’s like voting in Bongobongo land?

    • Damon

      “… and Labour/Tory/Lib all want us to stay in.”
      Nonsense. A significant number of Tory MPs, probably the majority, want ‘out’. But don’t let the facts get in the way of your anti-Tory spin.

      • Noa

        Maybe, maybe not, but David Cameron and the rest of the Tory leadership do not, so the comment is correct.

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