Charles Moore has it just right on Woolwich

15 June 2013

There is a terrific piece in today’s Telegraph by Charles Moore which I very much recommend. It is titled ‘Woolwich outrage: we are too weak to face up to the extremism in our midst’.

In the piece Moore rightly criticises our societal inability to deal with Islamism. In particular he criticises the switch of attention which took place immediately after the murder of Drummer Rigby thanks to bogus claims of an ‘anti-Muslim backlash’. Moore also addresses the follow-up fib that a threat equal to the jihadis – or even the primary threat to our society – comes from the English Defence League.

Incidentally, I saw that, whilst over for the G8 meeting, last night David Cameron had a joint press conference with the first minister and deputy first minister of Northern Ireland. Watching him standing beside Martin McGuinness, I wondered if Mr Cameron has any plans for another of those ‘we will never compromise or give in to terror’ speeches which he gives so well?

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  • kate5778b

    Sura 3:3 says that the Qur’an is supposed to confirm
    the TNK and NT – it doesn’t as THE Prophet must be an Israelite and not
    an Ishmalelite (Deuteronomy 18:18+) people shouldn’t just do religion, but critically think ‘does this offer atonement, am I loved and forgiven despite my faults, then I will love and forgive and treat people with kindness too, despite their faults; the example ought to make one a better person and have laws that benefit society.

    It is the 21st century and Islam is actually the only religion that is quoted Sura and verse whilst acts of terror are perpetrated: beheading, chopping off opposite hand and foot, beating women, dhimmi status and exacting jizyah, because it is in the Sunna and Qur’an – it is the BEHAVIOUR of Mohomet the perfect man for Mulsims to follow (sura 33:21) the teachings and example of Mohomet is the cause of the hatred against Jews and Christians, especially in Muslim lands. Mohomet/Alah orders fighting as a prescription and to kill AND Humiliate (dreadful) todays’ existing peoples (Jews, Christians and other kuffr), it was written when people couldn’t either read or verify if the Qur’an supported the earlier Abrhamic texts, even today a Bible and New Testament are forbidden in the land that spawned Mohomet and so are Jews as citizens – Saudi is an Apartheid State. Today we have the dead sea scrolls and the Tanach and New Testament online, there is no excuse. Compare Mohomet’s actions to Jesus’ in the Qur’an and now tell me who the perfect man is, and even the Creator Himself….Isa creates a bird out of clay, and which one has the Eternal’s Holy Spirit……’s not Mohomet.

  • Charlie97

    By Melody Moezzi, Special to CNN

    (CNN) – I wasn’t surprised by former British Prime Minister Tony Blair’s recent statement about a “problem within Islam.”

    It’s not as though I’ve never heard anything like it before. I hear it all the time.

    Still, his words – in response to a recent attack in London that left a British soldier dead – made me wonder: How might the public have reacted in a different context, had Blair replaced the word “Islam” with “Christianity” or “Judaism”?

    I’m guessing not well.

    But Muslims are used to having their faith openly denigrated by public officials.

    We’re used to people failing to distinguish between “Islam” and “a few Muslims.” And we’re used to being called terrorists despite the fact that the vast majority of terrorist acts on American and European soil have been carried out by non-Muslims.

    But being accustomed to abuse doesn’t mean we bruise less. If anything, being beaten repeatedly in the same spot makes each successive blow all the more painful.

    I’ve written many reasoned commentaries in defense of Islam, Muslims and Muslim women in particular. This isn’t one.

    Today, I’m going to do something different. I’m not going to cite relevant verses from the Quran. I’m not going to quote scholars. I’m not going on the defensive.

    Today, I’m tired. So tired that I’m going to do something I’ve never done before. Not because I seek pity or sympathy, but because I think people should understand. Because maybe if they really understood, they’d stop.

    Today, I’m going to tell you what it feels like to live with hate and hostility directed at you on a daily basis.

    I’m going to tell you what it feels like to turn on the news and hear people repeatedly call your faith hateful and violent.

    I’m going to tell you what it feels like to be vilified any time a man named Mohammed commits a crime.

    I’m going to tell you what it feels like to wait at a subway station next to an advertisement calling you a barbarian.

    I’m going to tell you what it feels like to find a death threat in your inbox.

    I’m going to tell you what it feels like to know that the police are infiltrating your places of worship, finding nothing and still targeting you.

    I’m going to tell you what it feels like to be told that you can’t be a feminist and that so many of your gentlest brothers are misogynists, criminals or worse.

    I’m going to tell you what it feels like to see your people being slaughtered in the hundreds of thousands by state-sponsored terrorists, only to be called terrorists themselves for the crimes of a handful among them.

    I’m going to tell you what it feels like to have your own people call you a heretic when you’re fighting to defend their rights, while others call you a heretic for doing so.

    I’m going to tell you what it feels like to be told to go back to your country when you’rein your country.

    I’m going to tell you what it feels like to be asked if you walk 10 spaces behind your husband or if he beats you or if he has other wives.

    I’m going to tell you what it feels like to have people assume you hate them when you don’t.

    I’m going to tell you what it feels like to be expected to know why a stranger committed a crime because he claims to share your religion.

    I’m going to tell you what it feels like to be required to apologize for something you didn’t do.

    I’m going to tell you what it feels like to be told that you don’t belong when you know there’s no place you belong more.

    It hurts.

    The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Melody Moezzi.

    • Drakken

      If your looking for sympathy? You can find it in the dictionary between the words s*** and syphilis. You brain dead weak converts to the devils religion have brought misery on yourselves because your fellow cult members continue to slaughter us infidels with impunity. You stated in another thread that you were on the front lines, now I have figured out you were with your fellow jihadist, sorry I missed you.

      • Charlie97

        I have never stated that I’ve been on the front line. Please retract that statement.

    • Keith D

      Your faith is a violent death cult and has no place in a civilised world.lose it or leave along with the rest of you.We are sick of you all.

  • bubbles1

    I agree, it was so refreshing to read a mainstream journalist speaking openly. There are many of us who refuse to become dhimmis & we should be able to express honest opinions without fear of the PC mob & the fearful. Islam has been given far too much protection .
    I have no fear of the EDL in fact I admire them for being the only ones who ‘are’ willing to make a stand & take to the streets, why are the UAF never castigated by the press ? They are the thugs who are backed by all main political parties, purely to defuse the EDL, this to me speaks volumes……

    The group, Stop Islamisation Of Europe [ SIOE] were a peaceful & active group,but for that very reason never got the publicity they deserved because the media wouldn’t touch them !

    Even Blair has come to the view we have been weak & must stand up for ourselves against the Islamic bullies or else……….

    • Mussi Buma

      I went to hear SIOE speak at Harrow mosque. Instead I got to witness the UAF whip up 1500 muslims into a testosterone-fuelled racial rampage, where they went round looking for white men to maim. I was glad that day I did not look like the kind of man they wanted to attack.

      I decided that day, that the civiised gentlemanly approach of SIOE was dead in the water. We are way past the time when this is going to be settled by negotiation. I decided that day that EDL were our only hope. Nothing has happened in the intervening 4 years to make me think otherwise.

      Since declaring musilm fundamentalists Nazis in 2005, Cameron has done nothing but allow their number to increase by 80%. The establishment are scared witless. They know that any attempt to roll back the territory taken by muslims will end in a massive increase in terrorist attacks from muslims.

      The government/media’s distortion of the truth is a sure sign we are already in the first stages of the war. At the moment, the elite have sided with muslims. It remains to be seen if the country can be woken up to wrest control from that elite.

  • sheikyermami

    There is no “Islamism” — there is only Islam. And that’s it.

  • DP111

    Why are we surprised that this has happened? Muslims are commanded by the Koran to take over Kaffir nations, by all means, and to impose Islam. If we didn’t know this, then the fault lies with us, and not with Muslims, as they have made their intentions quite clear and open from the very beginning – some 1400 years ago.

    These present steps by Muslims are small, but soon their will be calls for shari’a this or shari’a that. If they are not met, then Jihad can be legitimately invoked – its Islamic law.

    Britain- the most important nation in the creation of Western civilisation is in great danger- a danger that is without parallel. In 50 years or less, Muslims will be a majority, and shari’a will be implemented legally, via parliament. If it is opposed, then a civil war and Balkanisation will result. Such has been the case whenever Muslims have been allowed to gain a foothold in a Kaffir nation.

    I hope and pray, for Muslims and non-Muslims, that we can avoid this dire situation. Much better for cultures as dissimilar as Western and Islamic ones, that they live apart, then the inevitable violent conflict.

    • Drakken

      The Balkanization is already here, it will take but a spark to set the whole thing on fire, it is inevitable and I am afraid that there is nothing now to be done to stop it.

  • andy_gill

    Well said Charles Moore. We need an army like him to stand up and be counted. Islamic extremism is not going away. It is a generational problem, which has the potential to undermine European society.

    If not tackled now, we will see Europe gradually descend into a terrorist hell-hole like Pakistan.

    We must start by banning further immigration from Islamic countries, licencing mosques and madrassas, and scrapping all trace of sharia law. The UK needs to make it crystal clear that Islam is here on sufferance, has no place in public life, and will be tolerated only as long as it behaves.

  • Petra Thompson

    Charles Moore doesn’t have it right. Apart from you Douglas, the rest of the middle class has been too scared to speak out about islam since 1990. The EDL are the only people risking their jobs and in some cases their lives to do so. And Charles Moore still has to to stab them in the back.

  • Drakken

    It is rather amusing to watch the Islamist go completely ape because of their fear of the backlash that is coming, I would highly recommend that they read the old Grimm’s Fairly Tale of the Little Boy who Cried Wolf, it has a really neat ending that the Muslims should take heed too.

  • MikeF

    It occurred to me earlier that I have never heard the murder of Lee Rigby referred to as a ‘hate crime’. Does the ‘anti-racist’ left think it was or not.

    • Petra Thompson

      The fascist Left have designated it as two soldiers executing an enemy combatant. I kid you not. That is how it is being sold in The Guardian.

      Personally, I like that line of thinking. It means we can intern all muslims as enemy combatants.

  • edithgrove

    Having read it, Moore seems weak and dithering. You do a better job in Standpoint.

  • chan chan

    There you go again, Douglas, with the nonsensical word and concept ‘Islamism’, which was coined purposely to distance Islam itself from the behaviour of these savages.

    It doesn’t exist.

    • Petra Thompson

      Even Quilliam accept that 20 of the major muslim organisations in the UK are islamo-nazis.

      40% of British muslims want sharia law (which means subjugation for us non-muslims). If the other 60% of the British muslims were told “sharia means we muslims are the uber-menschen”, I think the vast majority would be behind sharia.

      • chan chan

        The so-called ‘moderates’ are the marginalised muslims on the fringes of Islam. Those referred to as ‘extremists’ are the best, most pious muslims at the heart of islam, with all the doctrinal back-up you can imagine for everything they do and say. It’s not difficult to understand or figure out.

      • crosscop

        Petra – that should be “40% of British Muslims admit that they want Shariah Law…” of course.

      • Charlie97

        Would you mind referencing your statement (“Even Quilliam accept that 20 of the major muslim organisations in the UK are islamo-nazis”) so we can read it for ourselves? Thanks.

  • FrankS

    Amusingly, the Birmingham mosque machete attack was not a “hate crime” according to police. So, that’s all right then…

    • tigerlily

      Yep – obviously no hatred involved in that crime.

      • The Elderking

        Yes, it was a “I really really like you ” kind of crime.

      • Charlie97

        The guy who perpetrated the crime has been taken to a secure mental unit. Perhaps that explains why it was not classified as such?

        • Drakken

          Your Islam doing what Islam does best, but then you knew that didn’t you convert?

        • tigerlily

          ‘Hate crime’ is a such a vague term and also sounds Orwellian and daft. To some extent I understand the desire to differentiate but they should have thought of something better than that.

  • Augustus

    Political-religious Islam is never willing to share power. It demands and forcefully takes complete dictatorial control of government wherever it can. Even when its rule begins moderately it ends in extremism and tyranny. It ignores the needs of the secular public and if its size is considerable it forces on people strict Islamic law. Political-religious Islam does not believe in democracy, but it may use it to seize total undemocratic control. All democratic Western countries, still indulging in illusions, translating them into policies of appeasement towards the likes of the Muslim Brotherhood, still need to heed this lesson. The fault line splitting our planet is a chasm between those who champion democratic values and progress, and those who espouse extremist-religious fascism. There’s no bridge in sight. It’s unbridgeable.

  • Roy

    A backlash against Muslims is just what’s required. They are not needed, not required, and their actions and cultural standards are not compatible with the British civilized enlightenment. They should never have been given citizenship and should not have been allotted any more than a visitors permit. The English have been more than generous up to now. Only the strongest of police enforcement will stop the inevitable clashing of differences as the younger Muslim element over stride their clear misguided demanding agenda.

    • Oliver

      Don’t you mean a backlash against Islamists?

      Surely my moderate Turkish friends who drink beer and go to the mosque less than they go to football don’t deserve a backlash?

      What about all the Muslims who are strict but peaceful and have no interest in politics or imposing Sharia law, should they be subject to backlash?

      And what of the Muslims who came to Britain decades ago to escape fundamentalism and have integrated whilst remaining Muslims. Should they be subject to backlash?


      Ahmadiyah Muslims?

      Comments like this just give the pious left and the Islamist apologists the ammo to write us all off as racists.

      • James Strong

        Your moderate Turkish friends who drink beer etc.are not muslims; they are Turks. Lapsed muslims or non-practising muslims are not really the problem. However, ask yourself why those friends of yours will not take the logical step, based on their lifestyle, and say ‘I am no longer a muslim.’ Part of the reason they won’t say that is that believing muslims think they should be put to death if they say that.
        As for the muslims who are strict but peaceful, beware. They are peaceful because they are currently not strong enough to be aggressive in their behaviour.
        Being opposed to Islam is not racist.
        The racists are those who excuse the violence and oppression of Islam because most of Islam’s adherents are brown rather than white.

        • Oliver

          If you read the rest of my comments you will see I do not make the mistake of thinking a critique of Islam is racism.

          I am an equal opportunist religion basher. I think they all deserve criticism but just as Quakers don’t deserve a backlash for what the Westboro Baptist Church gets up to, I don’t think Sufis deserve backlash for what the Muslim Brotherhood gets up to.

          Also I think there are plenty of Catholics, Jews and Buddhists who break the rules of their faith or cherry pick the bits they like yet still identify as members of their faith. My Turkish friends would fit that bill.

          Not to mention all of the secular Jews who don’t believe a word of it yet still celebrate all of the religious ceremonies and festivals. There are plenty of Muslims like that.

          Anyway even if there weren’t I also mentioned peaceful observant Muslims who have no political ambition and certain moderate sects like Sufism and Ahmadiyah Muslims who are not a threat.

          By saying Islam deserves a backlash you are throwing the net wide enough to catch many of our natural allies within the religion and we need them.

          • Keith D

            I agree with all of that but think as the inevitable further atrocities occur so will a genuine backlash.Its incumbent on us all as enlightened people to prevent such things but in the face of constant denial of the Islamist problem by the MSM and our useless HMG what options are available to those of us who care enough?.Inaction is no longer a viable option.What would be helpful would be a strong line from Government abandoning the cultural relativism we’ve seen for so long.And a clear statement to the Choudary’s of this world that their bile will no longer be tolerated.

            That in turn would enable the people who are human first (and muslim second) to take over the narrative from the Islamists.Thus I would hope remove any likelihood of a backlash.

            • Drakken

              Your problem is that you think that the govt is there to protect you and yours and that a blind man can see it has utterly failed in that regard, it is your God given right to protect yourselves from harm.

              • Keith D

                The Govt are the last people I’d trust to protect me or my family.They protect terrorists and their enablers as does the BBC and the MSM.We get that now.What I’m advocating is that when it comes,and it will,that we differentiate between peaceful people and the monsters in the huge Islamist Fifth Column in the UK.

                • Drakken

                  There will be no sorting the wheat from the chaff when the SHTF, the only mantra that will come to play is let allah sortem out.

      • Roy

        There are not enough comments like this. An England for the English is what it should be, with a few concessions to our real friends. Your drinking pals should hop off back where they came from. We don’t need them, we don’t want them, and we can manage quite well on our own thank you. They are here to reap the excellent welfare the country can give them. Diminishing what becomes available for the real Britishers! We don’t owe these people a brass farthing, skip the PC rubbish we’ve heard it all before.

        • Oliver

          Wow I have just been accused of being politically correct in a discussion where I have denounced multiculturalism and mass immigration and criticised the black community, Islam, Muslims and the left.

          It seems anything short of wanting all non Brits kicked out is being politically correct.

          You couldn’t make it up.

          PS: Quit using the pronoun “we” because I’m English and you don’t speak for me

          • Roy

            Pick flies out of my odd comments if you wish. It still say’s what’s fair is fair; you stick to your place of birth and the place of your grandparents and the country wars have been fought for in the national name. Our inherited country is not for giving away and not for sharing. Let them who love the newcomers so much go live with them in their country, if such a thing was earthly possible. There is the rub!

            • Charlie97

              Ah, I see that you’re spouting off again. I asked you a question some time back, and I don’t think you responded. What should happen to Muslims, like me, who were born here, or who are white and have converted to Islam?

              • Roy

                Since you have now sworn elegances to the profit Mohammad, it would be an excellent idea to join the pilgrimage to Mecca. Before you actively defend Islam against unbelievers through Jihad, it might be a good idea to notify authorities.
                You ask what should happen to you? I would say we give you the choice of country with Sharia law you wish live, and pay the fare.

                • Charlie97

                  Disqus – elevating the debate. Except when Roy’s involved, it would appear. You’re just lumping everyone together. Not all Muslims are fifth-columnists wishing to wage jihad against the UK. What is wrong with you? I was born here in London, and know nowhere else (nor do I care to).

                • Roy

                  You need to read the relevant articles in the Qur’an to see what you have sworn elegance to!

                • Guest

                  Allegiance, rather than elegance? English people should be able to write English…

                • Charlie97

                  Reading the qur’an is nothing without tafseer – this is an Arabic word meaning explication. It is so simple for people (including, unfortunately, a lot of Muslims) to read passages without considering the circumstances in which the passages were revealed (I appreciate that you don’t consider it to be a revealed text), the specific meanings of the words (some Arabic words can have 5 or 10 separate meanings!). Also, any serious person should know that Islamic rulings (fatwas) are not solely derived from the book, but also from other sources. Therefore, one cannot read a passage and derive a ruling, because it’s just not that simple. That is why people in England do not simply consult a manual of law and decide on rulings for themselves, but rather they seek out someone schooled in the law, and then ask a judge to rule.

                  I agree that there are some passages that, if read in isolation, do not look good. I believe that the same criticism can be levelled at both the Bible and the Torah. I have faith in Islam. I am not arrogant enough (hopefully) to believe that I am 100% correct and everyone else is 100% wrong. Some of my co-religionists, unfortunately, are arrogant in this regard, and I believe that it is this arrogance that is partly to blame.

                • Mussi Buma

                  ” one cannot read a passage and derive a ruling, because it’s just not that simple. That is why people in England do not simply consult a manual of law and decide on rulings for themselves, but rather they seek out someone schooled in the law, and then ask a judge to rule.”

                  Rubbish. The major questions of islam were settled by 1100AD. There are manuals of sharia law to be found in public libraries in England. We are free to consult those and see what they say. They make it clear that muslim men can marry small girls, and that is exactly what we see happening not 5 miles from Westminster.


                  You are attempting to sow confusion. I notice you go by an anglicised name so that you can conceal that you are a muslim.

                  My father is barely literate, and has represented himself in umpteen civil and criminal cases in the English courts and never lost one case.

                • Charlie97

                  I wrote a reply about 20 minutes ago, but somehow, it disappeared!

                  So here it is again – a lot of rulings were passed in the first 500 years of Islam, but circumstances are ever-changing and so Islamic laws/rulings also need to be updated.

                  I’ll cite some examples to illustrate my point. Everyone knows that Muslims face Mecca when praying. In which direction do North American Muslims face? No-one knew. One contemporary scholar wrote an entire book ( in an attempt to address this problem. Even a ruling looking at the direction of prayer was required as recently as the late 20th century. Then there are new problems that need to be addresses all the time; in vitro fertilisation, or organ donation, for example. With better and more sophisticated astronomical tools, when does a lunar month start and end? What are the prayer times when one is traveling in a plane? There are many, many more examples of the need for Islamic jurisprudential rulings in contemporary times.

                  The jurists in 1100 A.D. wrote their manuals, and although some of their rulings will apply today, many will not. That is why we still require, and have jurists with the ability to derive rulings today in 2013. They then write their books.

                  You appear to be a bit perturbed that I have an English-sounding name. I am English, and now I am Muslim too (and have been for 25 years). If you care to look at some of my previous posts, you’ll see that I have not hidden the fact that I am a Muslim.

                  Finally – your father must be an exceptional man if he has required the services of neither a solicitor nor a barrister during his umpteen appearances in court. I would suggest that he is the exception rather than the rule…

                • Drakken

                  Are you so brain damaged that you cannot understand what is clearly written in your devils manual? That you need someone else to tell you what to think? No wonder you brain damaged weak converts make the best of jihadist.

                • Drakken

                  The devils book that you follow was written to be followed to the letter, you don’t need an imam to tell you what is clearly stated, and why is that every book in the world can be translated but your devil book can’t? Curious isn’t it?

                • Charlie97

                  Drakken, you really are an angry and rather rude man (for those unsure what I’m going on about, he’s sent 6 messages back-to-back, in addition to this reply). I, on the other hand, am extremely comfortable with who I am, and so feel no need to respond in kind.

                  To answer your point: one could pull portions of text from the Old Testament and they would appear dodgy. I assume that is why the Jewish people have the Talmud, in addition to their revealed Torah – as an explanation of the primary text, as it were, via the opinions and derivations of Rabbinical scholars. The same mechanism exists in Islam. Why do you find that difficult to understand?

                  While we’re on the subject, perhaps you could answer three questions for me, given that I have afforded you the courtesy of a reply.

                  1) Do you have a vested interest (financial) in war?

                  2) Do you believe that Christ will return after a war (with the Muslims)?

                  3) If the answer to question 2 is yes, then what fate awaits the Jewish people thereafter?

                • Drakken

                  It doesn’t matter that you were born here, your a brain damaged convert who belongs to the uhmma now, your place of birth comes in second, there is no room for convoluted allegiance.

      • edlancey

        your “moderate” friends probably refer to you as the kufar when you aren’t around…

        • Oliver


          • edlancey

            well just try dating or marrying one of their sisters without converting to their death cult,,,

            • Oliver

              They are not all fundamentalists. Turkish Muslims are very different than Pakistani or Saudi Muslims. An Iranian or Turkish moderate is much more like the average Brit than you think.

              This is where the EDL have got it totally wrong.

              Just because the Koran is a barbaric book and extremist Islam is a death cult, that does not equate to moderates who cherry pick the religion. Just because in the tribal zones of Pakistan or rural Turkey they have strict honour codes whereby women are bargaining chips that does not equate to moderates from Istanbul or Tehran.

              It’s the same with all religions.

              As long as you are incapable of seeing any nuance and determined to treat all Muslims like Nazis people will write you off as a bigot and people like me will be condemned as guilty by association.

              I urge you to soften your rhetoric because it drives people away into the arms of the leftists who want more mass immigration.

              • edlancey

                What rhetoric ?

                Ever been to Turkey ? Apart from a few fancy districts of Istanbul and Izmir the mindset of the people is hardly any different from those in the badlands of Pakistan.

                I’m not trying to change them or force them to westernise in their own backyards, I just won’t want my country to have to change to accomodate them if they choose to live here (or claim asylum here).

                If you think that makes me part of the problem then you really are just astroturfing for the few people in Westminster who agree with you.

      • crosscop

        Your moderate Turkish friends should be in Turkey, helping to sort the country out – not hiding in England, drinking beer.

      • Mussi Buma

        They all worship Mohammed.

        Here’s a list of the 1000s of people Mohammed had assassinated, beheaded, tortured.

        I have a Turkish muslim friend who drinks beer and doesn’t go to the mosque. When I try to talk to him about islam he refuses. As the years go by, I have put more distance between him and me. I do not trust any muslim or ex-muslim who refuses to acknowledge and denounce the atrocities of Mohammed.

    • Mussi Buma

      “A backlash against Muslims is just what’s required.”

      It was a statement like that from Douglas Murray that got him ostracised by the Tory Party.

      The same Tory Party whose leader said in 2005 “muslim fundamentalists are nazis”, then proceeded to allow population of said Nazis to increase by 10% every following year.

      • Roy

        When truth is represented as the devil, it is no wonder we are increasing the devils work to the country. Of course, when British and American politicians are under obligations to the Saudis for under the table contributions, it is no wonder they kiss their feet and bow down to them at every turn and speak only of them in the most favourable terms.

  • Joe Long

    “Mr Mughal was giving data on attacks to DCLG which wasn’t stacking up when it was cross-referenced with other reports by Acpo [the Association of Chief Police Officers],” said one source closely involved in counter-extremism.

    “He was questioned by DCLG civil servants and lost his temper. He was subsequently called in by Don Foster and told that he would receive no more money.”

    A senior Liberal Democrat source confirmed the sequence of events, saying: “There was a bit of a spat. He was called in and told that Acpo had cast doubt on his figures. He was told that he would be closely monitored for the remaining period of the grant and that there would be no more money.”

    So they’ve been content to fund this Muslim charlatan with taxpayers money, but when it comes to attacks on white British people they just don’t want to know

    “A TEENAGE boy was knocked unconscious with a house brick, stabbed with a screwdriver and �left for dead� in a vicious race attack.Joseph Haigh, 14, was savagely beaten by the gang of up to 15 Asian youths in Thornhill on Friday night.The gang hurled racist abuse at him, constantly referring to the colour of his skin, yet police refused to classify the attack as racially-motivated.Joseph�s dad Jonathan, 42, of Thornhill, said: �It was a racist attack.”

    • Petra Thompson

      Fiyaz Mughal launched Tell Mama on the very day that the trial of the Rochdale muslim gang of child-rapists began. He was expecting a huge amount of violence against muslims (which never appeared).

      The most serious violence against muslims in Britain in the past 12 months has been from muslims stabbing other muslims: in Darlington because some muslim expressed sympathy for Lee Rigby, and in the mosque in Birmingham today.

      • Julieann Carter

        Wasn’t it the BNP who campaign about this first – ahead of the EDL, around the same time as Ann Cryer? Didn’t Nick Griffin have to go to court and defend himself against accusations of ‘racism’, for highlighting the grooming gangs?

        • Mussi Buma

          Hard to know the chronology. The BNP was certainly banging on about it when Cryer, and the media decided to keep quiet.

          Getting justice for those girls was going nowhere with the racist BNP publicising it. We have to be grateful for the EDL coming along. The prosecutions announced in Scotland at the weekend are 2 gangs of 37 men. And the English forces have at least another 54 gangs. It looks like it will be somewhere between 500 and 1000 men going to prison.

          This is the biggest childcare scandal in at least 50 years. There needs to be a Public Inquiry, to see if the blame is to lie with the police, social workers, muslim organisations, media, politicians.

  • Oliver

    It’s a catastrophe, the beginning of the end for Britain and it’s not the Islamists who are to blame.

    It’s the politicians, media and liberal educators who for decades have used anti racism and the cult of ‘diversity’ like a sledgehammer to break what they believe to be the root of all evil.

    From misogyny and racism to bad foreign policy, poverty, inequality, war, famine and death.

    The root of all evil is Western civilisation and ‘privileged’ white men. (By the way in left wing terms, that’s all white men)

    They have carried out a cynical and successful left wing Jihad against Western culture and peoples through massive civilisation altering immigration policies and the constant threat of that career and reputation crushing accusation of racism.

    An accusation with such a chilling effect it has turned even Thatcherite politicians into quivering liberal jellyfish who applaud mega-diversity coming to fruition in London as native Britons become a minority.

    Through the multi pronged attacks of mass immigration, erasure of British culture, demonisation of British history, abolition and ridicule of the concept of white identity (whilst conversely championing all other racial and cultural identities) they have created a weak, terrified, rootless, unhappy, obsequious, grovelling, self deprecating native populous with no sense of unity or pride.

    You can’t blame Islamists and minority youth gangs for throwing their weight around because that is just human nature. When faced with people who apologise and blame themselves when you punch them it empowers the attacker and encourages yet more punches to rain down until the victim agrees to do anything the attacker says.

    The majority of the British mainstream play along happily and this trend has got much worse since 911.

    They have become so desperate to prove their anti racism credentials that they will gladly publicly declare themselves to be non people -without identity and culture- whilst fawning over and lionising the cultural and racial identities of other groups.

    They are so terrified of being accused of racism the police grant rioting minority youths free reign to terrorise the public and Lee Rigby’s beheading is conveniently side lined as the country focuses on a few out of shape, drunken EDL supporters (who wouldn’t last ten minutes in a brawl with the sober steely eyed Islamists) scuffling with the police.

    We have become so apologetic over our identities and sycophantic towards others we have lost the ability to distinguish between the mundane divisiveness of racist Tweeting and the dehumanizing rift inducing, Sharia patrols and racist grooming gangs or the fully paid up ultra violence of minority youth gang culture or Muslim extremism.

    We have become so anti racist minority youths can burn our cities down and Muslim extremists can behead a British soldier in broad daylight then stick around to boast to the camera -quite safe in the assumption that the chances they will be lynched by an angry mob is close to zero- and we will say it’s all our fault.

    I wonder what would happen to a white Brit who beheaded a Nigerian in Lagos or a Pakistani in Lahore and just stuck around for a chat with the public?

    Ironically, despite our radical suicidal anti racism it seems beheadings and bombings are our fault because we are racist.

    So we must double down on our anti racism by demanding MORE DIVERSITY and rallying against those mystical angry mobs of highly dangerous white people.

    The terrifying thing is the more we continue to blame ourselves for minority street crime and ultra violent Islamism whilst belittling and ridiculing native Brits the more likely that we will spawn an ultra violent white reaction.

    It hasn’t happened yet but the more this state of affairs goes on the more likely it becomes.

    Orwell couldn’t have imagined this stuff in his wildest dreams.

    • Oliver

      PS: I think that secretly many of those liberals who believe Western civilisation & ‘privileged’ white men are the root of all evil secretly love to see minorities rioting and carrying out ultra violence.

      They say the violence is terrible before going on to say how it’s all our fault but secretly I reckon they are thinking gleefully that it’s the the start of the revolution. The fall of Rome and that all the noble ‘oppressed’ will be the violent vanguard of that revolution.

      Of course because these wet liberals couldn’t fight their way out of a paper bag they need Islamist thugs. Little do the idiots realise it’s Western civilisation which is the incubator of liberalism so they are rooting for their own downfall.

    • Drakken

      The more the left, self hating, self loathing SOBS keep pushing the rest of us into this multicultural nightmare, the more likely that a extreme violent response will be the result, I foresee a lot of lampposts and miles of rope will get lots of well deserved use. Make no mistake, there will be blood and lots of it.

      • Oliver

        This is the problem when having these discussions we need to be brutally honest whilst also being careful about the language we use.

        We are sandwiched between those who would seek to accuse us of racism on one hand and on the other people who partially agree with the points we are making who actually are vicious racists.

        We can say what we need to say without going into vicious and rather too enthusiastic talk of lampposts, rope and blood.

        I’m not sure if you were speaking as a concerned citizen or a nutter but anyone who is undecided on this issue will read your comment uncharitably and that reflects badly on all of us.

        Please leave out the rivers of blood stuff.


        • Wessex Man

          You’ve found one of them but there are quite a few out there to whom the BBC and left wing media jump on to prove their point. There a quite a few words or sayings that will get your comments “moderated” and withdrawn and they can be completely innocent, for example if I were to use the name of a little hamlet near me this comment would be moderated. This ‘Drakken’ uses really offensive rubbish and gets it posted.

          It’s really time for the Spectator to smarten up it’s act.

          • Drakken

            Well here in the US we have this little thing called the 1st Amendment and we enforce it with the 2 nd Amendment. See here it is in a nutshell, you don’t have the right not to be offended and if your precious fragile sensibilities are hurt, I would highly suggest you get a thicker skin. The question I have for you is really simple, will you stand up and be counted, or be one of the sheep that lies down and take what’s coming?

            • Charlie97

              You’ve mentioned the old ‘Balkans on steroids line’ quite a fair few number of times (on a number of different sites), and you really appear to relish the thought of an all-out war with the Muslims. Well, hopefully, you’ll be one of those who will “…stand up and be counted’. I suspect, however, that you’re a little puss-puss.

              • Drakken

                How shall I put this as nicely as I can? After 25 years of working for Uncle Sam under arms in various capacities and I continue doing it under contract to various entities, so yes I do have more experience in this sort of thing in my little pinky than you do in that couch potato quarterback body of yours, thanks so much for asking. As history as my guide, this is not going to end well, you can hear the war drums beating in the distance and you have got to be completely deaf, dumb and blind not to see it coming. Well I do understand that your media has been rather silent, complicit and any dissention against the multicultural lie and party line is met with calls of racist and losing your job, so I can understand how the sheep can go quietly without so much as a whimper, thank God(not allah) that quite a few of you Brits still have a backbone. It is not a question of me wanting anything, it is a question of warning you before it is too late. Chance always favors the prepared mind Chucky.

                • Charlie97

                  So, do you have a vested interest in talking up war?

                • Drakken

                  Well gee good golly, I guess if you bring up unpleasant facts it upsets precious sensibilities and gives folks like you a case of the vapors. Since when did you Brits have spines of jellyfish? What is more worrying than me stating what is going to happen if something is not done, is that folks like you who continue to stick your head in the sand and say what? Me worry?
                  Yes our 1st Amendment gives us the right to state unpleasant facts and truths, and no, you do not have the right not to be offended because it gave you a case of the vapors. Stating facts is not the same as inciting. Civil war is coming, it is a fact, unless you folks over there start doing something now, it is inevitable, ignorance is no longer a excuse when the information is right at your fingertips.

        • Drakken

          Well your going to have to get up off of the couch and finally choose a side, cowardly behavior in the face of naked aggression only invites more aggression, there is no longer any room for the so called middle ground, so what if the left calls you a racist, it has zero meaning anymore so wear it with pride and a stiff upper lip and all that. The time for niceties and pleasantries is over, will you go quietly into the night? Or will you stand firm and stand up for what you believe?

    • Petra Thompson

      Antiracist is a code word for “anti-white”.

      • Oliver

        In many ways I agree with this saying, but once again it has been sullied by being used like a mantra by KKK members, BNP types and some pretty despicable white nationalists.

        It’s difficult because I genuinely agree that anti racism in practice has tended to work less in favour of complete equality between the races and more to undermine Western culture and emasculate, belittle and abolish white identity.

        This is the problem, we are stuck between the far left anti racists and the far right racists and no matter which way we turn there is a trap waiting for us.

        No wonder the vast majority of people keep their moths shut and toe the line.

        • Daniel Maris

          I have a lot of sympathy with what you say. Unless we form a broad anti-Sharia alliance, the racists will hand us over to the unholy alliance of Sharia activists and PC leftists (who have already done so much damage).

          • Charlie97

            Daniel, I really can see some of your points – especially those regarding extremism, and Islamic vs Western ideology. There are others, however, that I just cannot understand.

            I’ve read a few posts that discuss Shariah. One example is the greater availability of halal meat. I have not seen one person make the quite obvious point that these decisions (to serve halal meat) are purely economic. I have previously seen one statistic that Muslims make up 4% of the population and consume perhaps 20-25% of lamb consumed in the UK. I do not know the veracity of this statistic, but it would seem to me that the free market often dictates policy, as opposed to the Leftist PC UAF brigade. I do agree that it should be labeled for the sake of transparency.

            You’ve also talked about Shariah ‘courts’. Would you mind telling me, in which matters you think these courts rule? I think that they rule in matrimonial matters (akin to the Beth Din, I believe), and other personal matters (such as how much of one’s wealth should be given away, or the method of praying etc.). I would be intrigued to know your view on this.

            • Alexsandr

              eat pork, ham and bacon. There is no halal pork!

              • Charlie97

                Really? I didn’t know that…

  • Curnonsky

    “Comments are closed” is fast becoming the “Peace in our time” of 2013.

  • Oliver

    Damn the Telegraph paywall.

    • Simon

      You can get around the paywall by selecting incognito browsing on Chrome or private browser on Firefox and IE.

      • Oliver

        Cheers, that works a treat :)

      • FrenchNewsonlin

        Doesn’t seem to work with Speccie paywall though! interesting that Teles coders are so slack.

  • retundario

    The worst part of it was the clearly fabricated Chinese Whisper that “EDL” had been sprayed on that burning Mosque before it had burned down, totally indicative of the media’s state of mind that that obvious fabrication gained such currency

    • MikeF

      Yes – again where is the evidence? Has a photograph of this supposed piece of graffiti ever been published? How come it just happened to be on part of the building that wasn’t destroyed? The whole thing reeks of falsehood.

  • retundario

    The utterly pathetic knee-jerk response of the establishment to look the other way after Woolwich and start focusing on the EDL was something else. It is really beyond a joke, just utterly pathetic. The EDL has about 2000 members and they go around acting like thugs but don’t kill people, whereas Islam has 2 million UK members, and they attack us constantly and actually kill us, but guess which (comparatively very loose) ideology comes under attack by the media for “breeding hatred”? So fed up with our media, really loathesome pathetic bunch.

    • Petra Thompson

      ” and they go around acting like thugs but don’t kill people”

      Are the thugs the black EDL, the jewish EDL, the Sikh EDL, the gay EDL, the muslim EDL? Or are they a subset of a demo who the photographers focus on instead.

      You should take yourself to an EDL demo and get an overview of the variety of people there. Then go and spend the rest of your time watching the professional photographers. The photographer scum will spend 100% of their time focusing on the 20 or so most angry looking men. Usually the “professional” photographers will put themselves with their backs to the fascist Leftists, so that they can get 100s of photos of a handful of EDL snarling at the leftist scum.

      In 2010, the EDL declared a fatwa on journalists and photographers. The photographers came grovelling asking to be allowed to take photos, saying it was not their fault etc.

      EDL should declare another fatwa. Let the photographer scum starve.

  • Julieann Carter

    Well done to Douglas Murray for supporting Charles Moore. Agreed, it is an excellent piece, as were the well reasoned comments below the article from articulate and intelligent posters. The few I did read this morning.

    I was disappointed somewhat in a similar themed article yesterday, by Raheem Kassam at the Commentator. Under heavy criticism from the Left – (being the point of the article) – he appeared to be quite verbose in distancing himself from the EDL, effectively caving in to the left as a result of their accusations.


    It’s not just the MSM, it is pervasive across all social networks, including even ‘friendship and dating’ sites. These reds get everywhere, they spread like a disease and tend to infect the gentle-minded people, and intimidate and/or ridicule anyone who dare venture any relevant questions or views to the contrary.

    Take this (second) post from one of the resident ‘reds’, about the EDL:

    the West Midlands
    4-Jun-2013 23:01
    Message #4365788

    “Well Minnie, Mix has answered
    your question with aplomb. They are the fascists that have replaced or
    are replacing, the the BNP and before them the NF.

    They are Racists and really have nothing in common with Drummer Lee
    nor any other soldier. Some of them may well be ex forces, so what? I
    am ex forces, and I am very much in the Anti-Fascist camp. Indeed, I am
    an anti fascist and could be termed as being in the anti fascist league
    because I turn out at anti fascist gigs, whenever they are close by and
    some even further away. However, I am not in any fee paying group that
    calls itself the AFL. I simply stand against Racism I know, that those
    that fought in WW2, not only fought to preserve our perceived freedom of
    speech (which, is OK when one can afford to pay for it) but they also
    fought, alongside our; Polish, Russian, Baltic, French, and many others,
    comrades against Fascism. How is it possible therefore, to quote that
    one supports the Fascist EDL having freedom of speech (which they are no
    more, or less entitled to than anyone else resident in these Isles) and
    at the same time not quoting that our forefathers of WW2 also,
    vehemently fought against Fascism.

    If you want a “River of Blood”, then continue to excuse the fascists
    on the basis of them trying to preserve the freedoms against the
    onslaught of fascism in the 1940s.

    Peoples’ minds are being twisted in order to protect the status quo…


    Now, the OP made an error in her thread title. She mistakenly termed the UAF as the AFL.

    Another poster then commented that this group did not have a WIKI entry, so therefore cannot be controversial in any way.

    Our enlightened chap above, who admits to campaigning with the antifascists, doesn’t see fit to correct the obvious error so that others may carry out their own research, if they may be interested. They usually mostly simply take his word as Gospel.

    Also, note the clever wording, ‘how he doesn’t help fund the AFL’!!

    I can’t stand manipulation. Unfortunately those who do challenge posts such as the one above, tend to get banned. Mass voting of ‘inappropriate’ brings that about.

    Oh the thread gets worse after. Twisted minds tend to give me a headache!

    Have a read of this thread to see what I mean. The problem is, there are many vulnerable and naive people on sites like this.

    I’ve been banned, along with another, neither of us could be described as abusive, so we are thus describe as ‘unfriendly’. For daring to hold an alternative view and not being afraid to push the point in debate.
    It simply is resented.

    • Joe Long

      That Commie creep you quote, “free spirit” ,has never been near the armed forces I’ll warrant. That’s just a typical example of their warped propaganda. In fact the UK regime is very worried about the influence of the EDL in the army. Serving soldiers were part of the large EDL demo in Newcastle, and apparently Iraq and Afghanistan campaign medals were worn. As a result of that an edict has come down from the top warning armed forces personnel that they will be sacked in they take part in further demonstrations.

      Apparently the Armed Forces Division of the EDL got 12000 likes on Facebook, lefties were having kittens over that, And a senior sergeant offered to take Tommy Robinson’s place on the Help for Heroes charity walk
      when his offer to raise money had been so churlishly spurned.

      • Mussi Buma

        That sergeant then came under under massive pressure from the MoD not do a charitable walk for Help for Heroes. The establishment is full of traitors.

    • global city

      protect the status quo… says it all really.

    • Nicholas chuzzlewit

      Well said JC, just keep on telling the truth.

  • MikeF

    Yes – a plan was put into action. The way that the whole emphasis of media coverage and political reaction sought to play up this supposed ‘backlash’ was no accident – neither, by the way, was the use of that word which is a standard piece of left-liberal terminology intended to create the impression that all words and thoughts that do not accord with the agreed line are reflexive, unthinking and motivated by sheer emotion or ‘hate’ to use another term from their selection box. Notice also how the Muswell Hill fire has disappeared from the headlines. Has it even been established that it wa arson and not a short-circuit in the electrics.

    • Petra Thompson

      I was informed the police arrested someone for the Muswell Hill fire. And he was the kind of tanned person who prays frequently and who is not often found on EDL demos. After that, the story disappeared.

      • Julieann Carter

        This is outrageous! The problem here is should any clear evidence come to light as to the perpetrator, it is only reported on EDL websites or similar – and therefore not taken seriously as ‘evidence’ for debate or fact presenting purposes.

      • Chris Hammond

        Do you have any info to support this claim?

  • Abhay

    The enthusiasm that is being shown by the political elite to assist ‘rebels’ in Syria is saddening. Some of the most radical jihadis are in their midst. Yet, that aspect is not being discussed enough. The capitulation to radical Islamists is taking place at several levels.

  • Alexsandr

    We must not forget it is not just the murder of Lee Rigby that is an affront to our culture
    There is also female genital mutilation, grooming rape and pimping of underage girls.

    • Joe Long

      The epidemic of racially and religiously motivated/aggravated grooming and gang rape of white girls is the greatest condemnation of the traitorous UK regime. Can they possibly sink lower? Would even the Ethelred the Unready have plumbed such despicable depths? They wrung their hands and went into total denial mode as these atrocities were committed.

      As regards the vile Labour Party there can be no doubt that in effect they sold our girls into the most appalling degrading sexual slavery in return for sacks of bent postal votes

      “Labour’s tacit flattering of Pakistani biraderi networks to garner votes starts to appear more shady in the context of its failures to tackle grooming”

    • Oliver

      I think the problem is far wider than Islamism.

      Something which is never mentioned in these debates is the quite frankly terrifying internecine violence and street bullying carried out by a significant minority of black youths.

      This kind of behavior is oppressive to everyone, as deleterious to social cohesion as Islamism and most of all deeply destructive to the black community itself. It’s also a phenomenon that doesn’t have to exist.

      (Of course I know there are violent white lads as well and I think our idiotic binge drinking culture which tends to lead to brawls needs to be seriously rethought but there’s no denying that black youths are far more likely to be stabbing and shooting each other whilst intimidating joe public than Chinese, Polish or English lads)

      Most youth gangs are not driven by poverty, religion or politics just boredom, a desire to glorify oneself as a hard man and the correct belief that everyone is too afraid to stop them.

      If the public (both black and white) did what they openly do to the EDL and say “NO” enough is enough. Lets unify and stand up to street thuggery.

      I think the kind of gang culture currently effecting the black community would be severely reduced If whenever a stabbing or robbery took place the assailant was genuinely worried law abiding citizens might make his life uncomfortable enough for him to be relieved to see the police arrive!

      If this was the case I believe most of these lads would opt for school instead of the gang and prison.

      We can’t turn back the clock to a time before mass immigration and in many ways I wouldn’t want to but the only way to end street thuggery and fascism (both the brown & white variety) is to physically stand united against it as is done regularly to the rather tame threat of the EDL.

      Not on blogs or on petitions but on the street.

      When two men behead a man in broad daylight those men should have been genuinely terrified of the reaction of the people around them.

      The fact that they weren’t, for me is one of the main reasons we are in such a mess.

      When faced with ultra violent people puffed up by ideology or a sense of superiority the worst reaction is passivity.

      The only way to get a warriors respect is to stand up for yourself and whether it’s gang members or Islamists they have a kind of warriors code and that means people who don’t resist attack due to fear deserve to be attacked.

      The deterrence of a population not afraid to defend itself can only come with unity and unity only comes with a shared identity and common culture.

      Unfortunately mass immigration and radical anti racism has done away with all that.

      PS: If I’m not mistaken one of the Woolwich killers was in a street gang before he turned to Islamism. I would hazard a guess that the street gang culture which sees passivity as weakness played a part in his contempt for British people and society long before he became an Islamist and hacked someone to death.

      • FrenchNewsonlin

        A closer look at these street gangs you mention might show they are closely related to drug crime which if correct, makes their behaviour even less desirable.

      • Julieann Carter

        Do we all remember the gruesome mutilation and murder of PC Keith Blakelock?

        “The rioters removed his protective helmet, which was never found. Rose writes that the pathologist found 54 holes in his overalls, and 40 cutting or stabbing injuries, eight of them to his head, caused by a machete, sword, or axe-type instrument. A six-inch-long knife was buried in his neck up to the hilt. His hands and arms were cut to ribbons, and he had lost several of his fingers. There were 14 stabbing wounds on his back, six on his face, a six-inch gash across the right side of his head, and his jawbone had been smashed. The pathologist said the force of the blow that caused this injury had been “almost as if to sever his head.”

        His killers have never been brought to justice. Compare the campaign for justice for Stephen Lawrence. (Rightly so).
        But it also sends a message to society that some lives are more valuable than others, and so empowering one over the other.

        RIP PC Blakelock.

    • Daniel Maris

      Yes, but then “our” culture delivers children being murdered by divorced fathers and acts alcohol-fuelled barbarism…it’s not really about such social phenomena. The issue with Sharia is the utlimate threat to our cultural survival and our political rights. We (all non-Muslims) would be turned into second class citizens and many features of our culture – art, music, alcohol, dancing etc – would be put under limited or banned.

      • Alexsandr

        any parallel legal system should be outlawed. If they are considered tribunals then they should be registered and regulated by the justice department, and their records, kept in English, subject to audit, at their own expense. They should be forced to show they comply with and respect the superior English or Scottish law.

      • Simon Morgan

        I don’t think the option of being second-class citizens would be made available to us. It’s become a psycho like them or perish (in a suitably horrific manner, of course).

  • NedMissingTeeth

    It’s quite sinister the way the BBC and nearly all other MSM focussed on the possible backlash against Muslims while the Lee Rigby murder itself was a hot potato we shouldn’t touch. I am yet to see a coherent argument against what the EDL have to say when it comes to Islam. The UK media is in a bad place right now. The longer the Islamist threat is brushed under the carpet the bigger the eventual bang will be.

    • an ex-tory voter

      And the biggest fish in that “bad place” is our old friend the BBC. They are awash with tax cash which gives them the ability to ignore what does not suit their world view and control the MSM agenda.

  • Austin Barry

    Perfect piece from Moore.

    Until MSMs chronology appears on Woolwich appears to be:

    (a) a “mundane act of violence’ (Simon Jenkins);

    (b) Don’t mention it too much lest we upset the Muslims;

    (c) Disregard (“comments are closed”) the seething electorate;

    (d) It’s all the fault of those EDL bastards.

    Arriving from Mars an alien would be led to believe that something happened at Woolwich caused by the EDL.

    Whatever one’s thoughts about the EDL, the MSM’s spin about Woolwich is 180 degrees.

    The lights of the Enlightenment are going out in this country and the West generally.

    • Joe Long

      Point d)

      Typified by the rush of the gadarene MSM swine to pin the burning of the Muswell Hill Islamic centre on the flimsy basis of some graffiti.

      After the initial hysteria nothing much has been heard of this allegedly cowardly anti-Muslim arson.

      On the one hand we have the graffiti on the other the submission to the Charity Commision that the building was in a poor state of repair, required “complete modernisation” and a host of improvement. Funding of all of this was admitted to be problematical. The Somali Welfare Association’s accounts reveal about £12000 cash at bank and £17000 total assets.

      So obviously it was the EDL wot done it.

      Further investigation would not be in the either the public interest or that of “community cohesion” naturally

    • Shazza

      Yup, all correct. I have just watched Andrew Neil’s disgraceful ‘interview’ with Tommy Robinson and his attempted character assassination. When on the losing side, always play the man and not the ball. He then interviewed some moslem who was treated with deference , no interruptions just nauseating sycophancy.

      • James Strong

        I thought Tommy Robinson acquitted himself well and retained as much dignity as anyone could in the face of a deliberate series of verbal attacks.
        It was clear the Andrew Neil did not have an examination of the truth about the actions of the EDL as a goal of the interview.
        Neil tried to bully Mr. Robinson.
        He then switched from bully to coward when interviewing the mohammedan.

      • chan chan

        “is there anything else you’d like to share with the nation, Mr. Macmillan?”

      • Petra Thompson

        ” He then interviewed some moslem who was treated with deference , no interruptions just nauseating sycophancy.”

        Exactly the same behaviour was manifested on the BBC Asian network’s 90 minute “interview” (character assassination) of Tommy Robinson. And BBC 3’s hilariously misnamed “Free Speech” programme.

        • Simon

          The Muslim in question was Farooq Murad, the General Secretary of the MCB, a man who owes his job to the fact that he is the son of the Supreme leader of the Islamist party Jamaat e Islami. Murad was the Islamists candidate in the election for his post. The leadership posts of the MCB are in effect controlled by the Jamaat nexus and their allies MAB, UKIM, IFE and Dawatul Islam.

          Given Jamaat’s position on killing homosexuals and apostates, and their goal of an Islamic state in which non-Muslims would become second class citizens, it would have been enlightening for Neil to have given Murad at least an equal grilling as he represents an organisation whose goals are far more chilling than the EDL’s.

      • bubbles1

        I absolutely agree, Neil was sneering & aggressive, He was more interested in mocking the use of names than the real issues.

        I gather Robinson was supposed to lose his temper so that Neil could smirk & say , job done, but Tommy held it together ,he’s been there too many times before & knew when he accepted the invite to appear on the programme what would happen.

        I was pleased to see he was even allowed into the studio.

        • Shazza

          Please go over to the excellent Gates of Vienna site and read the latest comment by the brave Paul Weston about how the BBC has allowed Tommy Robinson to be exposed to even greater threats on his life. We really live in frightening times.

  • Normandee

    Charles Moores piece was excellent but the Telegraph adopted their more than frequent suppression of opinion clause again. I saw an interview with Tommy Robinson, and whatever is actually going on on the streets he was very reasoned and well spoken, and came across in a completely different league to some of the people he is listed with. He makes, for instance, Nick Griffin look like exactly what he is, a rabble rousing idiot. Nothing he said was inflammatory or threatening but as I said reasoned, and maybe some of the questions he asks need to be considered carefully before being dismissed.

    • James Strong

      The MSM won’t carefully consider the questions Tommy Robinson asks because it would then become clear that those questions cannot be dismissed, unless fear trumps honesty and reason.

  • christopher mahoney

    The EDL guy was on Fox News the other day (O’Reilly) and made a very good impression.

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