No-go Britain

31 January 2013

In 2008 one of Britain’s best and most courageous men, Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali, said that there were parts of Britain which had become no-go areas for non-Muslims.

For these comments he was met with widespread scorn and denial. Nick Clegg – then merely leader of the Liberal Democrat party – said the Bishop’s comments were ‘a gross caricature of reality.’ William Hague said that the Bishop had ‘probably put it too strongly’, while the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) accused him of ‘frantic scaremongering.’

So how interesting it is to read of the arrests made by police in recent days of a number of men for a string of incidents in London. These involve radical Muslim men trying to enforce Islamic law at night in parts of London. This is done by informing people that they are in ‘a Muslim area’ and demanding their compliance with sharia principles. These include telling a man carrying alcohol: ‘No drink in this area, it’s a Muslim area’ and telling a woman they think is dressed inappropriately that she cannot dress like that ‘in a Muslim area.’

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They also tell a man they think looks gay: ‘You’re walking through a Muslim area dressed like a fag… You need to get out here… You’re dirty… This is a Muslim area.  You’re a gay. You’re a fag. You bloody fag. Get out of here you fag … don’t stay around here anymore.’

While of course being delighted that the police have actually done something, it should be remembered that these events only came to light because the people who were doing the ‘patrols’ videoed their actions and posted the videos up on the internet. These were then picked up by the Commentator website and given widespread publicity. So on this occasion, it was all rather difficult to ignore.

Of course I wouldn’t expect anything from the MCB. But is it too much to hope that Nick Clegg and William Hague might now take this opportunity to apologise to Michael Nazir-Ali?

If they choose not to do so, perhaps it is because they think that this is a one-off event? In which case perhaps Mr Clegg and Mr Hague could assist us all by seeing how they might fare late at night in some of the more ‘diverse’ areas of our country?

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Show comments
  • disqus_naEuabYgae

    The Muslims, male or female, I see on television, in politics, writers etc anywhere, all seem to be mentally ill and very disturbed.

  • disqus_naEuabYgae

    With all our education and enlightenment and knowing what we know about these revolting Muslims it just keeps getting stupider.

  • dukestreet

    They tried that in my area with a Serbian and got a big surprise. When they tried threatening and touching the person,that person fought back like they had previous experience with this behavior. So far as I know the Muzzies haven’t tried that again.

    • Petra Thompson

      They tried it in my area with a little man from Lithuania. He objected to them stopping him and searching his pockets for valuables, so he pushed them away. About 20 of them returned with baseball bats, charged into his home, smashed the windows and beat the crap out of him. He’s now scared to ever leave his home, and to taunt him they hang outside his front door day and night.

  • Safdar Shah

    It sounds like nothing more than minor criminality by a few youths. It happens and hopefully the police deal with it. Unfortunately there is still a lot of racism so minorities like Muslims are more likely to face hostility in certain areas than vice versa. That’s the problem that you should be more concerned about Mr Murray as that is far more prevalent.

    • Petra Thompson

      I suppose when they stuck a broken bottle into the spine of Oliver Hemsley outside a gay bar 10 mins walk from East London Mosque, that was “minor criminality” too. Only one of the 8 or so muslims involved in that attack was punished. When he was sent to prison, another 30 or so arrived at the gay pub that night and smashed up the place and the customers.

      I can think of no case in the history of this country where a group of gay men have attacked a muslim with a broken bottle and left him paralysed.

  • Narwhale

    “At immediate issue is the Bedford Avenue bike lane. It’s the longest in
    Brooklyn and runs through every imaginable ethnic enclave—including the
    South Williamsburg redoubt of the Satmars, the ultra-Orthodox Hasidic
    Jewish sect. In December, after many complaints from the Satmars about
    “scantily clad” female riders, the city sandblasted off a small stretch
    of the lane.”

  • Narwhale

    “Baila Gluck, testified that masked men representing a modesty committee in the
    Hasidic village of Kiryas Joel, N.Y., 50 miles northwest of New York
    City, broke into her bedroom about seven years ago and confiscated her
    cellphone. The Brooklyn district attorney, Charles J. Hynes,
    who prosecuted the Weberman case, has now received allegations that
    members of a modesty committee forced their way into a home in the
    borough, confiscating an iPad and computer equipment deemed
    inappropriate for Orthodox children, officials say. Allegations have
    also surfaced that a modesty committee threatened to publicly shame a
    married man who was having an affair unless he paid the members money
    for what they described as therapy.”

  • Narwhale

    ““They operate like the Mafia,” Rabbi Allan Nadler, director of the
    Jewish studies program at Drew University, told the Times. “They walk
    into a store and say it would be a shame if your window was broken or
    you lost your clientele,” he said. “They might tell the father of a girl
    who wears a skirt that’s too short and he’s, say, a store owner: ‘If
    you ever want to sell a pair of shoes, speak to your daughter.’”

    • Van Grungy

      muslims will threaten to burn down your business, or church.. they will just go right ahead and rape any kafir girl stupid enough to show flesh..

      suck it up jew hating buttercup

      • Narwhale

        The hatred is yours, my friend, and I am sorry for it.

        • Narwhale

          Just to be clear. My examples from New York were intended only to show that there is extremism in many faiths, and thus to counter the hysteria of this article and many of the comments below it.

          I suspect that many of the comments come from people who’ve never been to London, or even to the UK. But I work in the area of East London where this vigilantism took place. I have no anxieties as I go about my business, not least because – as a previous commenter pointed out – it was the local mosque which reported these incidents to the police.

          “muslims will threaten to burn down your business, or church.. they will just go right ahead and rape any kafir girl stupid enough to show flesh.”

          This is disgusting.

  • retundario

    To be fair this is just territorial adolescents being territorial adolescents – chavs do the same kinds of things all the time.
    The problem is multi-racialism which means this kind of behaviour breeds conflict that it might otherwise not in homogenous society – but the behaviour itself, ill-educated adolescent yoot behaving like yobs, is a fact of life

    • Petra Thompson

      Do “chavs” have god on their side? Do “chavs” know that the police will do all they can not get involved, fearing accusations of racism?

  • The Elderking

    This is not a one off or even recent occurance.

    My wife and I left Tower Hamlets in 2003 in large part because of the unsafe nature of the area.

    My wife was stoned by a gang of young muslims on the way home from work and I was attacked outside our vets on Mile End Road. Friends had been attacked and abused and stabbings, mobbings and intimidation was becoming a regular occurrence.

    Interestingly a group of residents created a web site where we could share infon, highlight/report/comment on crimes, share info on dangerous spots around Wapping, Limehouse and North Canary Wharf.

    The action the police took was amazing – they ordered the web site taken down and did bugger all about making the streets safe. The Tower Hamlets Council – a Bangladeshi run affair – refused to act, presumably because the offenders all come from the same villages as the councillors, and the Evening Standard refused to cover the news.

    Only Jim Fitzpatrick MP listened and shamed the police, eventually, to create a very small team to tackle muslim gangs, It failed.

    As with the decades long grooming of young girls by muslim gangs the authorities have turned a blind eye and therefore given encouragement to these evil creatures.

    • Petra Thompson

      Tonight I was at a meeting with a muslim community leader from east London. He told the meeting that in Tower Hamlets the Police, ELM, IFE and the Council are all in cahoots.

  • Trofim

    This is the next step. It Grozny, Chechnya muslims shoot paintballs at immodestly-dressed women.

    • Petra Thompson

      In the suburbs of Paris, the muslim gangs use Stanley knives to slash the faces of women (even non-muslims) not wearing a hijab. It is documented in Bruce Bawer’s book “While Europe Slept”.

  • Kevin England

    I don’t understand why the army hasn’t put tanks in Downing street to help save what’s left of the English people….those that haven’t left because they can’t afford to or are too old.

  • AY

    the debate should be conducted in correct terms. Britain should become no go zone – for muslims. yes not islamists but muslims – because for today’s “moderates” everything depends on the arrival of “correct” imam tomorrow – with a beard and finger up.
    wake up people. woman walking on the street uncovered, was thrown acid in the face by a niqab-wearing al-qaeda beast. every day there are reports of murder and rape of non-muslims by muslims. more and more “community support offcers”, poicemen and companies’ security contractors look like taliban infiltrators taking over, the fifth column. wake up and forget “no go zones” – these are terror bases. this is civil war in slow motion.
    look at Egypt and Syria. everyone with half brain now realizes the obvious:
    1) the reason for the mass brutal violence in Syria (and elsewhere in the middle east) – the “liberation” of its tribal population, with a cave mentality and inherent ethnic/religious/criminal strife
    2) islam – one of the traditional expressions and embodiments of this mentality
    3) the import of above-mentioned population to “free” West means inevitable deployment of all this barbaric sociopathy in the West.
    4) the speed with which this evil devours its victims, expands and multiplies.

  • Roger Hudson

    What was Theodore Roosavelts advise to people walking in Whitechapel ‘ Walk softly but carry a ………..’ I’m glad the police are active on this.

  • Augustus

    Westerners have a historical tradition of being ready to fight and die for their country. Muslims, on the other hand, are bound together less by patriotism, but mainly by family relations and religion. Intermarrying to protect the family and community from outside non-Islamic influence is much more important to Muslims living in a Western nation than integrating into that nation and supporting it. And this massive inbreeding among Muslims has been going on since their prophet allowed first-cousin marriages more than 50 generations (1,400 years) ago. For many Muslims, therefore, intermarriage is regarded as being part of their religion. In many Muslim communities, it is a source of social status to marry one’s daughter or son to his or her cousin. Intermarriage also ensures that wealth is kept within the family. Islam’s strict authoritarianism plays a large role as well: keeping daughters and sons close gives families more power to control and decide their choices and lifestyles. And a lot of those new-born inbred babies are going to be very retarded, the closer the blood relative, the higher the risk.

  • Nadeem Afzal

    Actually mcb, east london mosque and other london based imams have come out to condemn these thugs and extremists. So get your facts right Murray.

    • anotherjoeblogs

      did these ‘ london-based imams ‘ correct these thugs and extremists by quoting from the koran and showing them exactly how wrong they were ?

  • Daniel Maris

    The lesson I take from this is that there should be a specific law to prevent the imposition of Sharia. The law should be comprehensive. It should include:

    Prevention of Muslim patrols of this nature.

    Making it illegal for any Muslim who is a UK citizen to enter into a polygamous marriage in any other legal system or for anyone to become a UK citizen who is already in a polygamous marriage.

    Making it illegal for Sharia courts to make judgements in areas which fall within the competence of Parliament and requiring them to publish all judgements in English.

    Making it illegal to conspire to replace democratic government with Sharia.

    Bringing religious schools promoting Sharia under the education inspection regime.

    I wouldn’t mind this being extended to all religions, but we know Sharia is the real problem.

    • sarah_13

      Unfortunately if you do that then those in religious communities will shout discrimination. The fact is there are already laws preventing the above. incitement to violence etc are crimes, just because it is given a religious name doesn’t make harassment land intimidation legal, if the police did their job they could easily arrest these patrols, as they have started now to do. Inciting violence against jews or gays is a crime etc. Assault and abh and gbh are crimes, whether you give it a religious name like female circumcision or not. Forcing someone and taking them to marry or do anything else is already a crime. Doing as you suggest is just what those who plead victim status want. No, they must be held to the same standard of every other british citizen, and whether they worship poseidon or are a jedi knight, a criminal offence is a criminal offence. We must be able to call a spade a spade whoever is doing the digging.

      • Ron Todd

        We should have some test for the people we let into this country that would let us weed out those with a medieval attitude towards women. The test should be done face to face and be administered by somebody honest reliable and not from the same ‘community’ as the applicant. Many would lie to get into the country but at least after the test they could not pretend they did not know what standard of behaviour is expected in the UK.

        • Daniel Maris

          Yes, the Dutch have some real tests. Not the ridiculous non-challenging, weak stuff we have.

          You need to test people’s attitudes forcefully.

          And you need to make sure there is no personation going on.

      • Daniel Maris

        No – you are completely wrong. There are no laws preventing “the above”. In fact the welfare system recognises polygamous marriages. In fact to walk up to someone and tell them you are on Muslim patrol and would like them to pour their alcohol away is not an illegal act, any more than walking up to someone and saying you are on Environmental Patrol and asking them not to use bottled water (and so harm the environment) is illegal.

        Who said they were assaulting anyone? I never did.

        I don’t care if they plead victim status, any more than I care that Guy Fawkes or Oswald Mosley or Gerry Adams have claimed victim status over the years. We should protect our democratic system. We should do so forcefully.

    • chan chan

      Shari’ah law doesn’t have to be on the statute books. It just has to be happening, and people acceptant of it, for it to be reality.

  • Bob339

    How sad. So the muslims will all be leaving to go back to Pakistan and Malaysia etc. Boo Hoo.

  • andy_gill

    There is undoubtedly a hard core of fascists within the Muslim community. Unfortunately, they get a free pass from the BBC and the liberal press, who are terrified of being accused of Islamophobia and having their offices torched.

    Freedom and tolerance has to be actively fought for, it isn’t a God-given state of affairs. Islamocreep has to be confronted or the open society we have created will disappear.

  • David Lindsay

    Now we know how it feels to live in Afghanistan, after all that.

    Or how it feels to live in either of the fake states that we have created in Bosnia and Kosovo.

    Or how it feels to live in Iraq or Libya, now that we have improved them both.

    Onwards into Syria. And into Mali. Simultaneously. On opposing sides.

  • Teddy Bear

    If there were more clergy like Michael I doubt the Church would be in such decline as they are. He puts the Rowan Williams’s of this world to shame.He retired as Bishop to work as a defender of persecuted Christians.

    Anybody who Googles’ ‘Muslim Persecution of Christians’ by Raymond Ibrahim, produced monthly with an account of incidents throughout the Islamic world, especially following the ‘Arab Spring’, will have to wonder why our Church has avoided raising concerns about it.

    Let alone our own media – led by the BBC.

    Just yesterday we read about the BBC removing lines in a play that referred to ‘honour’ killings, to ‘protect’ Muslim sensitivities. So instead of confronting it, we condone it by ‘looking away’. We see the same gutless approach to issues involving Islamic behaviour time and time again in our society with our leaders afraid to confront it. So no wonder it will get worse, with the possibility of true integration an unlikely possibility.

  • NiceTeaParty

    Immigration has many blessings. Oligarchs with zillions to spend in Harrods. Film Stars to bring a touch of glamour. Musicians to brighten our cultural horizons. Lovely lasses to serve our Flat Whites with a smile.

    Yet Immigration has also brought much pain and suffering. Importing primitive and alien traditions, bigotries and attitudes from parts of the world that we would choose not to live in ourselves.

    Time for a debate then ? Not pro or anti immigration but about what kind of immigrant we actually want.

    Allowing us to discriminate on the basis of experience between those who are likely to be good and those who are likely to turn our cities into segregated neighbourhoods through some form of self-imposed apartheid.

    • Neil

      England grows stronger as it embraces what is best in other cultures.

      Perhaps being invaded by Scandinavians, Frenchmen and Italians in waves over time has given us a unique advantage in the world.

      Without our ability to embrace other cultures I would not have a cup of tea every morning or a Turkey every Christmas.

      Perhaps now is the time to look at what is best about Islamic culture to see what we can incorporate into our English way of life.

      • DazEng

        Perhaps you’re a mug?

      • The_greyhound

        Are you for real? You seem to exist in a different reality from the rest of us. The importation of vast quantities of third world peasants is a comprehensive disaster, cultural, economic and social. Britain is a worse educated and more backward place because of their presence. Forced marriage, bride burning, female genital mutilation and murdering kids for failing to learn the Koran are just some of their ghastly contributions to contemporary Britain.

        • Bob339

          Good man.

        • Neil

          It is undeniable that England would be a very
          different place today without the contribution the Islamic world

          My view is that the journey is not over and there is
          an opportunity for English people to gain a great deal more by embracing the
          modern Islamic world than by turning our back on it.

          Of course England faces immediate, acute social, economic
          and political issues as public sector borrowing continues to spiral out of
          control, the productive economy shrinks and the gap between the well off in the
          UK and the poor grows ever larger.

          At every level the “social contract” is strained and
          people in every walk of life look for easy answers. But no easy answers exist. Creating
          scapegoats is certainly not an answer. Once we have finished demonising Muslims
          who do we pick on next? Gays? Catholics?

          Tribalism is a bad thing in Afghanistan and it is a
          bad thing in Tower Hamlets. Tribalism is a bad thing when it is when it is practiced
          by people who are Christian, Jewish or Hindu.

          I do not advocate tolerance. Tolerance is a weak
          idea. I advocate the aggressive adoption of ideas that will lead to a better
          England. I cannot see how being actively prejudiced against any part of English
          society can make us stronger.

          Actively looking for ways to draw ideas from ethnic
          minorities in England is a necessary part of this approach.

          In England a Judge will not instruct a thief to pay
          his victim four times the value of what was stolen (as prescribed in the bible –
          becoming a bonded employee if necessary to pay their debt) and I would not
          expect an English Judge to apply a sentence prescribed in an Islamic religious text.
          But it is not clear that the English criminal justice system is working brilliantly
          and I would hope that our senior lawyers are studying Shari’ah law to see if
          there is anything that we learn from it. Human nature is, after all, not different
          in Islamabad or Norwich. I believe that Muslim men love their wives and their
          children just as much as men in Newcastle do.

          We are all guilty of letting England decline as an economic
          power. Our leaders “feed on those they are meant to lead” but we are complicit.
          We have not held our elected representatives accountable. We have not asked the
          right questions.

          Yes the problems of unemployment and the welfare
          state are out of control. Clearly it makes no sense that people able to work in
          England are paid to do nothing. However, this is not an issue created immigration
          controls or by any ethnic minority. We did this to ourselves.

          Of course if there is active prejudice against any
          group of people in England that group will band together. If we use religion as
          a way to marginalise any group of people they will inevitably turn to their
          religious leaders for a solution. People want to be proud of who they are.

          History suggests that driving people to Religious
          leaders for leadership does not end well.

          • The_greyhound

            Portentous nonsense.

            The presence of immense numbers of culturally inferior foreigners in our country requires explanation and justification, and there never has been, nor could there be, either.

            The British had and have nothing to learn from pre-industrial pre-scientific subsistence farmers from the subcontinent, and no amount of ‘multi-cultural’ sentimentalising is going to alter that. Mass immigration was, and is, a disaster, and we should be legislating to punish those responsible for it.

            And, as a footnote, I should add that the mediaeval cultural achievements of the Ummayads and Abbasids are generally overstated and overrated. The arabs took over Hellenistic science and philosphy and eventually transmitted it to the west, glossed but little changed; their own original input was small. Islam isn’t one of the world’s great cultures – it’s one of the world’s great missed opportunities.

            • Van Grungy

              Islam is acid dissolving our culture

              Always ask ‘golden age islam’ spewers… what happened to the non-muslims that made the golden ages happen?

              • chan chan

                I would also like to know why, if the Islamic occupation of Spain was such a “golden age”, the Christians and Muslims fought 150 battles there during the period. Doesn’t sound very peaceful and tolerant to me…

            • Neil

              re: “The presence of … foreigners in our
              country requires explanation and justification,”

              I could not agree more.

              It is perfectly reasonable for the current English to consider how the country became such a mixture of race and religion.

              Many of us were not born when (and even more of us were not old enough to vote when) the decision was made to allow large number of Indian and Pakistani citizens to legally enter England.

              Some of us were not born (or old enough to vote) when decisions were made to allow Western Europeans and others to legally travel to England.

              Ask your Mum and Dad why they thought this was a good idea. Round up the Politicians and Civil Servants of the day and get them to explain.

              I would love to see this happen.

              There should be accountability.

              Were these decisions in the past good decisions or bad decisions? Who were the winners and who were the loosers?

              But in any case don’t treat any present British Citizen descended from any racial minority as anything less than your equal.

              I still content that having people in England with an understanding of the Islamic world presents us all with an opportunity. Why squander it?

              • Teddy Bear

                Perhaps in the depths of your mind you cling to the fairyland desire that if we can only learn to love each other all will be well. So far you have failed to give ANY EXAMPLE to show where ISLAM benefits our society. Just the mantra that if we can only accept their view of seeing things we’ll all be better off.

                We can love that which rates love.
                We can give to those who we see want to improve their lives, and that we feel will eventually make us all richer.

                Tell us where you’ve seen adherents to Islam, wanting to change our society to be like the ones they come from, where they fit that bill.

                • Neil

                  Teddy Bear I am happy to provide an example…

                  …but before I do please consider that in England we have a long, long history of multiculturalism (as waves of invaders from Scandinavia France and Italy came to England) and that in recent history our parents (or grandparents) made a commitment to people from India, Pakistan, Poland and elsewhere to provide a home in exchange for their labor and energy.

                  My suggestion that if we are confused we discuss with our parents, politicians and senior servants of the day why they made these decisions. Are we too cowardly to do this?

                  If you want to have a debate with anyone about decisions made in the past about immigration policy (in terms of Indian, Pakistani or Polish immigrants) you are going to get a lot further talking to your elected representatives and older members of your immediate family than you are bashing immigrates because they look funny.

                  Of course making prejudiced remarks about people born here in England (with a minority religious tradition) makes absolutely no sense.

                  Why do you find it so hard to challenge the political establishment, press etc. and so easy to find fault in perfectly normal people who are just trying to get on with their lives in the face of racial and religious prejudice?

                  OK so I did promise you an example that shows where ISLAM benefits our society. In the face of the practical reality that we have inherited here in England your question seems very academic and a bit pointless but here goes…

                  ISLAM benefits our society because … English societal values are about tolerance,humanitarianism; acceptance irrespective of race/religion/colour/creed. England’s place on the world stage is enhanced because we demonstrate these values at home and abroad. By demonstrating our ability to embrace other cultures and live with others (and learn from others) who not exactly the same as ourselves we fight above our weight in places where Islam is not the minority but the majority (and elsewhere).

                  With these credentials we are able to secure advantages in trade, commerce and in terms of diplomacy. There are real benefits here in terms of jobs, opportunities and a chance to grow as a culture.

                • Teddy Bear

                  Your penultimate sentence starts ISLAM benefits our society because … and then you write about how good it is for us to give. So what you have shown is you can’t indicate one thing that Islam GIVES US other than the opportunity for us to give THEM.

                  It shows even in your raptures on Islam you too can’t even think of any positive value that THEY GIVE US. By your reasoning you’d be happy to give a serial killer a room in your home rent-free because it gave you the means to be charitable.

                  BTW, don’t lecture me about what being British means!

                • Teddy Bear

                  Here’s something I wrote a few days ago elsewhere, but I think it also fits here:

                  There’s an old saying – ‘you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink’.
                  Any intelligent person can see a benefit and increase by incorporating values we find in others to our own beings. The key word here is VALUES.
                  There is no doubt that there are many Muslims living in this country that one can only wonder their purpose to come here. They do not want to integrate or participate, in fact it appears they are more intent on changing our society to be like the one they came from.

                  The confusion our media and government is creating in society by thrusting these people upon us under the guise of ‘multiculturalism’ is terrible. We have enough problems trying to sort our problems out inherent to our own society without making it worse, if not impossible. The complications now are tremendous. Like when a person has a disease, they need to take antibiotics to rid themselves of it.

                  Extremist Islam has advanced because those in power are pushing it to attain greater power. We empower them further with our appeasement and ‘looking the other way’, when we know their aims and attempts to achieve them are intolerable to our values. We should not be empowering them. For those here, if they are unable or unwilling to accept the freedoms of our society, the values that we cherish, then they should be sent back to a land where there customs are already in place. There is NO possibility to assimilate or integrate, and only a fool would think otherwise.

                • Neil

                  Teddy Bear, I think that I agree with you 100%.

                  In England we expect people to each other in public in English.

                  In England we have a Christian tradition.

                  In England we tolerate a wide range of dress codes.


                  It is not wrong to think it rude when two people on public transport are arguing with each other in Polish.

                  It is not wrong to prosecute a man for attacking a young girl with a stick for having the nerve to wear a vest top.

                  If there are differences in the unemployment rate of young Muslim men compared to young men on the whole we do have to ask if employers are being unfair.


                  If it becomes fashionable for young English men to wear shirwal pants in summer to keep cool then there is nothing to worry about.


                  When we drive communities of people to the point were they only feel that they belong when they dress like their grandparents did back in Pakistan and would not be seen dead in Tesco then things need to be fixed.

                • Teddy Bear

                  You missed a word out in your second line that I will assume is ‘address’, hence In England we expect people to address each other in public in English

                  I don’t think that foreigners living here shouldn’t talk among themselves in their own language, but one would hope they would try and learn English as well to better understand our culture.

                  You also write It is not wrong to think it rude when two people on public transport are arguing with each other in Polish.
                  I don’t think it’s wrong or rude of them to argue in Polish, so long as they don’t disturb other passengers – then any language is rude.
                  If there are differences in the unemployment rate of young Muslim men compared to young men on the whole we do have to ask if employers are being unfair.

                  There are other things that need to be ‘asked’.
                  How are the Muslim men presenting themselves for work.
                  Because of previous problems that Muslims have created in their demands for what they consider work conditions peculiar to them, have the made the situation that employers would rather not have the hassle?
                  Are many of them preferring to collect unemployment than seriously get a job?

                  That’s for starters.

                  To your final sentence -with the complete range of clothing – formal and casual that people can choose from, to say that this drives anybody to keep the same costume they wore in their own country is ridiculous. They either want to assimilate or stand out as different. That’s their choice, and they bear the consequences.

                  have you heard the saying: When in Rome do as the Romans?

                • cacklepipes

                  I am sorry but that is absolute nonsense. Wrapped up, of course, in your somewhat pompous style. You are a wind-up merchant you truly are! Do you think I have not written to my MP, the PM, Home Office etc etc. Do you not think that I have protested everywhere that I can????? You clearly display all the traits of politician and I very strongly suspect that you are either that or someone who works for them. Politicians have NEVER wanted to listen to the electorate except when it SUITED them. For goodness sake stop your drivel and understand that your kind of treacly obfuscation will not wash anymore. As for being multicultural already, yes, we are, there is not a country in the world that can say that it has not got it already to a greater or lesser degree. Perhaps you forget the significance of the word ‘invasion’. We had European culture forced upon us by Romans, Scandinavians Germanics & French – please note FORCED. Our tolerance does not come from that. There has been no greater invasion of this country than that by Asians during the last 40 years- INVASION – and we ARE being FORCED to accept their ways, not the other way round. Sadly I see your attitude as one of craven cowardice as indeed I see the actions of our political leaders who do not have the courage to resolve the situation now. You seem also to ignore the fact that muslims have been at war – yes, at war – with Christianity since at least the middle ages. As for the ‘chance’ to grow a culture you really, really, really need to get your head straight – the culture HAS GROWN already before your very eyes you stupid man.

              • cacklepipes

                The point is that the public (voters/electorate) were never consulted, never asked and I have lived from Atlee through to Cameron. Immigration has in, the main, been all about cheap labour and political objectives. Early West Indian immigrants were ostensibly brought here because we had no bus drivers. The reality was that there were thousands of women who could drive buses but the bosses did not want to pay them the same wages as the men! Of course we can learn from other cultures but the best place to learn about them is by visiting them not by being over run by them. There were protests against the invasion by ‘blacks’ way back in the 50’s and thats when the system went to work on calling us racists. The protest then were very similar in that accusations were made about the behaviour of the new immigrants but at least there was not the religious bit involved. The bottom line for me is that, as always, it is about the rich keeping the rest of us down. What annoys me so much is that too few people understand the ‘divide and rule’ policy of the rich.
                Finally, you do of course have a right to your opinion but you do not have the right to tell me that I should treat a 2nd or 3rd generation immigrant as my equal. In demanding that you give yourself away.

                • Neil

                  re: “There were protests against the invasion by ‘blacks’ way back in the 50’s and thats when the system went to work on calling us racists.”

                  Whatever the merits of the case at the time the protests failed.

                  You had an opportunity in the 1950s to convince enough voters that immigration was a serious issue. But you and your comrades failed.

                  You could have stood against ‘the rich’ and demanded democratic reform. But you decided against picking a fight with people more powerful that you.

                  You could have embraced new immigrants demanding that they got the equal wages they deserved and making sure that ‘the rich’ did not profit from immigration. But you did not do this.

                  The problem with your approach is that you want to persecute the innocent (second and third generation immigrants) and let the people who facilitated mass immigration (the electorate as a whole, the politicians and/or ‘the rich’) off the hook. I just find that odd.

                • cacklepipes

                  Neil, own up, you are an islamist. Dont bother responding to me anymore your arguments are totally worthless.

      • Teddy Bear

        That’s a good thought Neil, but perhaps we might find ‘the best’ of Islamic culture has nothing to offer us.

        I’ve travelled in over 54 countries and spend quite long periods in a diverse variety of them, including Muslim countries. On the whole I was enormously enriched from most of them, with the exception of the latter.

        I have yet to find anything in the Koran which added anything to that we already had. If anything, it went backwards in terms of human development. I have yet to discover anything in their culture which I felt adds anything to my souls journey. In fact, much of it fills me with horror and disgust. I’ve no doubt that there are many Muslims who see and feel the same about the practices of their peers, but due to the negative response they would get from them, they prefer to keep quiet.

        If you can find something positive in it, I’d like to know what it is.

        • Neil

          A Muslim man rented a room from me for a year in 1998 and he was the nicest Gentleman I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. A pristine man who was studying at the University I was doing research for. He made the most fantastic tomato and fresh thyme omelet (I have never tasted anything better).

          In 1999 and 2000 I traveled to Turkey for extended holidays. On my first trip I traveled across Turkey from Istanbul to Hakkâri (on the border with Iraq) and then down to the border with Syria.

          In Hakkâri I met a medical doctor who spoke brilliant English but had never actually spoken to an Englishman (he had learn to speak English by listening to BBC radio – amazing)

          Turkey is a fantastic country and the people are absolutely brilliant.

          Since 2000 I have worked with very smart people from Pakistan (in Australia) and made friends with with diplomats from Kuwait (people with a amazing strength and a great sense of humor).

          I would recommend that every Englishman takes the opportunity to travel to Islamic countries and to work with Muslim people.

          • Teddy Bear

            I didn’t say that I had never met nice people or had good experiences in Muslim countries, and I can confirm that I did. I have also had negative experiences. That this had nothing to do with Islamic culture, which was your point, but more good human values which we can find the world over. Your point was to look at what is best about Islamic culture that adds to our own.

            If you know of anything that is specifically ‘ISLAMIC’, I’ll be happy to consider it.

            • Petra Thompson

              The koran commands muslims “do not take the jews and christians as your friends”. It commands “kill the unbeliever wherever you find them”. Muslim scholars are happy to admit that under sharia law slavery is legal (which explains the 1300 years of the islamic slave trade). Manuals of sharia law (to be found in Tower Hamlets libraries) say: kill homosexuals.

              Is that enough islamic goodness for you?

              • Teddy Bear

                I’m going to assume it’s a rhetorical question for me, since otherwise I don’t know why you thought it relevant to put it to me.

          • cacklepipes

            You are totally unbelievable

          • cacklepipes

            Bunkum mohammed

        • cacklepipes

          Teddy Bear, have posted that I think ‘Neil’ is an islamist – look at his reply to my comment about where it all began. In my view he does talk like someone from the middle east. Can you spare a moment to let me know what you think? Tks in advance

      • chan chan

        There is nothing good about Islamic culture at all. Nothing. There are no common points between it and western culture at all. So you don’t really have a leg to stand on with that assertion.

      • Fran800

        Neil. You sound just like Dr. Pangloss in Candide: “Everything if for the best in the best of all possible worlds. “if Columbus had not caught [syphilis], on an American island, we should have neither chocolate or cochineal”

      • cacklepipes

        Dont use the word ‘us’ you are not one of ‘us’

    • Bob339

      So. Money is what matters most to you? More than a national identity? I am truly sorry to see such a comment.

    • Simon Morgan

      What is obvious to us eludes our politicians. What we want is the immigrant that will contribute something to our society. We don’t want scroungers – we have enough of those already. We will accomodate their culture to the extent that immigrants understand we have our own culture here. And our culture, particularly concerning freedom of expression and the rule of law, takes precedence over EVERYTHING else. If that’s a problem, then there’s the door, sorry to see you go.

  • In2minds

    “So how interesting it is to read of the arrests made by police in recent days” –

    As the UK slides towards sharia the police follow going from inept to corrupt.

  • MikeF

    Multiculturalist ‘diversity’ is not about diversity but conformity, just as the ‘equality’ is claims to seek to promote is not about equality but preference. Remember that and there is no surprise here.

  • Sparky Scot

    Great article, as always.

  • CaediteEos

    There are of course plenty of non-diverse areas of the country I wouldn’t feel comfortable going at night – our own culture isn’t lacking in unpleasant people. The difference is they don’t enjoy the approval of fawning left-wing politicians, commentators and media types falling over each other to apologise on their behalf. How far will so-called liberals like Nick Clegg go in condoning the behaviour of possibly the least liberal people of all?

    • Eddie

      Indeed. I have often thought that many of the more radical Muslim Asians would, with white skins and no religion to justify their extremist beliefs, be considered fascists and bigots by those on the left (and the politically correct on the right and centre).
      After all, what would one usually call a man who hated Jews, hated those who do not share his skin colour or religion, hated homosexuals and wanted to kill them, wanted to inflict violence on any people who do not share his bigotries, hated women who asserted their right to individual freedom in dress and behaviour etc etc etc.
      Maybe dinosaurs? Backward-thinking bigots? Racists, sexists, anti-semites? Oh, but if that man has a brown skin and a religion, he instantly transforms into a poor wickle minority racial and religious representatives, so all the pc poltroons and panderers support him. If the same man were white and non-religious, he’d be called a fascist, a bigot, a racist, a BNP/EDF supporter, and a throwback by the self same people.
      It is startling how these twerps seem unaware of their utter hypocrisy, actually, or that they prove their own racism by treating people differently according to skin colour.

      • Daniel Maris

        I once did an extended tick list of characteristics of Nazism (charismatic founder, militaristic bias, aggressive war, provision for second class citizenship etc etc) – about 20 categories in total – and then compared it with Islam.

        What results do you think I got from that comparison?

  • Ivan

    I wouldn’t blame Nick and William. They probably didn’t have time to visit a clairvoyant.
    After all, nobody could have foreseen something like this happening! And, for goodness sake, give these people a break; they have much heavier burdens on their shoulders.

  • Eddie

    So where’s the surprise? This country has spent the last 40 years having mass immigration and then deliberately encouraging social fragmentation and conflict via the segregationist agenda of multiculturalism (in clear contrast to the French-style integration model).

    All those promoters of this so-called tolerance (which is, rather, pandering to backward, unreasonable and intolerant ethnic cultures and values) should share the responsibility for creating this sort of thinking in Muslims here. The BBC, the media, the schools, the quangos, the politicians – all are culpable.

    This is the where ‘celebrating diversity’ naturally ends up – by celebrating the rights of Muslims to assume they have the right to enforce their backward, primitive, pakistani village values on the people of this country.

    Just a shame we can’t arrest a few hundred thousand Muslims and expel them from the UK really. I fail to see any benefit from the presence of many Asian immigrants here, and I for one do not celebrate their continued existence.

    • Neil

      There is a risk that if we arrest a few hundred thousand Muslims and expel them that the National Health Service will collapse and the manufacturing base will shrink further.

      Members of ethnic and religious minorities contribute a great deal to UK society. On average I would guess that they study harder at school, accept lower wages at work, take more of a risk to get business ventures off the ground and have less personal debt than members of the population at large.

      My impression is that members of ethnic and religious minorities are under represented in the non-productive sectors of the economy.

      A more helpful approach would be to arrest a few hundred thousand Whitehall bureaucrats and expel them from the UK.

      • Eric the Scotland

        The employment rate among Pakistani’s is <50%, and only 20% of the woman work.

        Pakistani's families are the largest of all ethnic groups.

        The Pakistani's don't do very well at school in fact their attainment levels are only just above West Indians and way below the Chinese.

        The Pakistani's and Bengali's are the least integrated of all ethic groups in the UK.

        Finally, I've been working in manufacturing all my life and have never came across a Pakistani worker. There are however, plenty indigenous kids desperate for an opportunity.

        • Bob339

          Multi-Culturalism is not working. – Angela Merkel.

        • The Elderking

          Spot on. Your stats are correct. Same goes for Bangladeshis and Somalians.

          Don’t forget that if we did expel hundreds of thousands of muslims the demand upon the NHS, schools, social housing and the welfare budget, not to mention the prison population, would simply go away.

      • Bob339

        We could easily do both!

      • vieuxceps2

        It does not matter if every word you say is true or false. Muslims can only be a latent danger to non-muslims(Dhimmis) no matter where they settle. Such is the nature of their Credo. If they each laid a golden egg per day I would still be glad to be rid of them.

      • Eddie

        Neil – so you think people with dark skins work harder than whites? Racist!
        Actually, if one looks at the 5 GCSE A-C benchmark, one can see that 75% of those from Indian heritage (whose parents are mostly Hindu or Christian, educated and professional) reach that; about 65% of whites; and only around 35-45% of Asians from Pakistani heritage (with Muslim Pakistani village family backgrounds). So if they work harder than whites yet pass fewer exams at C grade and above, they must be as thick as curry, innit?
        Of course, partly this is because they don’t want their girls to be educated so tend to force them into marriage as soon as legally possible (or sooner). But mostly it’s because the Muslims who came to the UK were generally lower class and uneducated (like most Jamaicans too), whereas Indians tended to be professionald and educated – and that shows up in the stats.
        Many Asians do start businesses. But take risks? No way. If you have a large family and can get your wives, children and cousins to work for free or pin money in your shop, then anyone can make a profit! No wages paid out, see… So yeah, they accept lower wages at work – they get NO wages from their family businesses!
        I have alwasy been in favour of guest workers rather than immigrants. I know white Brits who have lived in Asia and the Middle East for decades, yet they have no right as citizens – they are guest workers, and there is no way any Muslims country would allow them to be immigrants with passports!

    • Bob339

      Good man.

    • GoodnightVienna

      You’ve said it all – well done! There can never be ‘multi-culturalism’ – only one culture with others integrating. I always thought, foolishly as it turns out, that they came here because they admired English/British values and aspired to our ideals.

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