The UK pays salaries to terrorists

26 October 2012

Why are UK taxpayers paying salaries to terrorists? The answer, as I explain in this morning’s Wall Street Journal, is Alan Duncan.

The International Development Minister has been told repeatedly that money provided by the UK taxpayer to the Palestinian Authority’s and its ‘general budget’ is being used to pay salaries to Palestinian terrorists in Israeli jails. As I explain in the piece, Alan Duncan appears to have remained smugly unbothered about these payments of up to £2,000 a month to the worst murderers. That is more than the average income across most of Britain.

Duncan’s claims that this was not happening have now been thoroughly refuted. Andrew Mitchell resigned for swearing at a policeman. Is it too much to hope that Alan Duncan should resign for funnelling our money to terrorists?

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Show comments
  • rndtechnologies786

    Nice blog.

  • Simon Morgan

    What we need is to counter the ubiquitous Human Rights Groups with Human Responsibilities Groups. The latter would have the final say on all matters. The world, and Britain in particular, would be transformed overnight.

  • Iain Hill

    I seem to have stumbled on the refuge of the deluded. If Mr Murray has any evidence to support his assertions, could he place separate them from his pro Israeli tirades and print it, in line with the standards of the Spectator?

    • Iain Hill

      Sorry! Please separate it. Naughty machine.

  • hippiepooter

    I make the odd contribution towards the website Biased BBC.

    In the last election we sent a weekly digest to parliamentary candidates, all of the Conservatives and UKIP, plus a few Libdems and Labour.

    Prior to the mailings we informed the candidates that as BBC bias tends to be anti-conservative and anti-Israel, the contributers and comments tend to be pro-conservative and pro-Israel. We asked candidates if they wished to be removed from the mailing list to reply ‘delete’.

    The only two delete requests we had were from Michael Mates and Alan Duncan.

    I had a hunch it make have had something to do with them both being anti-Israel.

    I frankly believe the Hon Alan Duncan thinks British taxpayer’s money is being put to good use paying the salaries of incarcerated Palestinian terrorists. He’d probably be very happy with them using it to fund another Shalit type operation to spring them as well.

  • Andy Gill

    How on earth can a gay man like Duncan defend paying jizya to a bunch of homophobes like the Palestinians?

    • anotherjoeblogs

      because being seen as islamophobic is worse than supporting those who can’t decide whether it is islamically correct to throw you off a tall building or slit your throat for the way you are ?

  • Adam

    victor 67, please provide the relevant quote which states in Hamas’ charter that it has no fight with “ordinary” Jews (as you put it). The charter explicitly calls fo the genocide of all Jews, and quotes relevant religious text in support of its goal.

    It also refutes all peaceful coexistence, mockingly rejects negotiations and states that jihad is the only legitimate path.

    They also kill gay people, Christians have fled, and women have been subjugated (oh, and they kill Jews too). And they control the press. And torture and kill political opponents. And haven’t had an election which was due a while back.

    No, nothing wrong with them at all.

    • victor67

      Happy to Adam,
      The source Hamas Political Thought & Practice by Khalid Hroub
      Article 31 Hamas charter
      ” The Islamic resistance movement is a humanitarian movement that cares for human rights and observes the magnamity of Islam towards the followers of other religions. It will never attack any of them except those who show hostility towards it.
      Under Islam it is possible for the three religions Islam, Judaism and Christianity to live in peace and harmony”
      I am sure you would seize on under Islam but this quote is a long way from genocidial intent don’t you think ? Not even the most zealous advocates of Hasbara could deny this.
      In terms of some of the more primitive parts of their charter progressives like Khalid Mishal have long moved away from. As well you fail to mention the repeated offer of a 10 year cease fire in return for a settlement on the 67 borders and a just resolution of the refugee problem.
      While putting forward these points this does not mean I support Hamas and there vision for Palestine but to counter the lies,propoganda and half truths of the Israel lobby.
      Regards Victor.

      • Adam

        Victor, the Hamas charter states:

        “our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious”

        “The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews [and kill them]; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: Oh Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!”

        Throughout, the charter presents Hamas’ view that Islam is inherently at war with Judaism, and your selective quote has to be seen in context that people can only be tolerated so long as they do not block Hamas’ goals of establishing an Islamic state – in other words, freedom and democracy out the window. I’m sure you’d be happy to acquiesce to such demands for yourself. By the way, acquaint yourself with what it is to be a dhimmi living under Islamic rule – it’s called apartheid.

        Hamas’ charter also rejects any kind of negotiated peace settlement, and repeatedly states that jihad is the only legitimate path to follow. That you are blind to such hate and extremism, and that you actually pretend that this is a “humanistic” or “tolerant” organization, would be laughable, if it weren’t so offensive.

      • Fasdunkle

        ” observes the magnamity of Islam towards the followers of other religions”

        That can be observed in many places where islam rules. Although you have to replace “magnamity” with “brutal intolerance”

        • victor67

          thats your interpretation

  • Adam

    D, Lindsay, victor 67, there is a video online, widely available, of a Palestinian who was recently released from Israeli custody in exchange for Gilad Shalit. In it, she smiles upon learning that she was responsible for killing more children (eight) than she originally thought (three). She is an example of who Mr Duncan thinks is worthy of more British taxpayers’ money than most British people earn.

    If you think these are the good guys, and it is “money well spent”, then I can’t help you.

    • victor67

      Sure but do you think Ariel Sharon et al are moral men? Israel claims to be a democracy but since its founding 99% of its leaders have been steeped in the military and their world view is one of a soldier rather than Politicians.
      A new book by Patrick Tyler Fortess Israel explains the highly milatirized nature of Israeli democracy and how it impedes reconciliation and peace between Israel and its neighbours.

      • AY

        that is because in democracy, the leader is judged by merit, – a contribution to guarding nation’s most vital interests.

        for Israelis, the most important issue remains survival.

        Sharon and co might be not angels, but there is no moral equivalence with those who sent >100 suicide killers to bomb Israeli civilians in buses, cafes and discoteques.
        In proportion to UK population, that would be 1000 bombings like 7/7.
        these are undeniable facts, and that is what everybody should keep in mind when hears the word “hamas”.

        • victor67

          The point is that since its birth Israel on the vast majority of occasions has chosen war and military action over diplomacy. This is a cynical calculation by the hawks that have run the country to expand its borders and deal with its enemies. Recently Cast lead and the Invasion of Lebanon were clear examples where Israel had a choice and chose war.
          In doing this it has ignored International law and UN resolutions and the consensus in the west on how civilized nations resolve its disputes. It plays on feeling in the diaspora Jewish community in America and Europe to dilute pressure on it among Western leaders claiming the threats facing Israel are unique.
          In following these policies fortress Israel is created with a similar mentality where war is the only way and the unique sense of “Israeli insequrity prevails” The problem is with its policy of discrimination in the territories and the threat of war it makes Israel an unatrractive place for secular liberal jews who can live safely in America and Europe
          This war mentality is now being played out againwith Iran with Bibi and Olmert posturing
          Writers like Murray are the apolgists for this strategy claiming the absurd notion that all 11,000 Palestinian detainess are blood thirsy terrorists.

          • Adam

            Israel has “chosen” war? Well, they didn’t have much choice when faced with genocidal dictatorial enemies who have repeatedly attacked her from all sides. But then, as an apologist for Hamas, I don’t expect any better. Why don’t you address the extremism as exemplified by the Palestinian terrorist who celebrates the murder of children? Indeed, these celebrations can be seen throughout Palestinian society on the occasion of every terrorist attack (including 9/11).

          • Augustus

            The Arabs in the ME, and people like you for some unaccountable reason, damn Israel for not granting a “right of return” into Israel to Palestinians who have not
            lived there in nearly 70 years. But what about the more than half-million Jews whom Arab dictatorships much later ethnically cleansed from
            Baghdad, Damascus and
            Cairo, and sent back into Israel? Didn’t they have any rights? And why does as Palestinian brag, even at the United Nations no less, that there will be no Jews allowed in his newly envisioned and Western subsidized Palestinian state? Doesn’t that remind you of an eerie historical precedent? There were three Arab efforts to destroy Israel before it occupied any
            borderlands after its victory in 1967. Later, it gave back all of Sinai and yet now faces a hostile
            Egypt. It got out of Lebanon — and
            Hezbollah crowed that Israel was weakening, as that terrorist
            organization moved in and stockpiled thousands of missiles pointed at
            Tel Aviv. Israel got out of Gaza and
            earned as thanks both rocket showers and a terrorist Hamas government
            sworn to destroy the Jewish state. When the next war against Israel comes, which will be far more deadly than any other before witnessed before, we all know where you will stand.

            • victor67

              Maybe white phosphorus on a school in Gaza or 1 millon cluster bomblets in the last days of the Lebanon war is the unaccountable reason. Hardly the actions of a Liberal democracy?
              Do you support such actions?

              • anotherjoeblogs

                has any muslim at any time anywhere desired to hurt a jew ? if so why ?

          • AY

            you’d better stop – this is ridiculous.
            you can’t build anything plausible with inverted narratives.

            about “11000 palestinian prisoners” – they are convicted terrorists and supporters, who threaten life and liberty of Israelis.

            many with blood on their hands.

            might be “freedom fighters” in your eyes but who cares.

            oh and British people know this enemy, too – just couple of days ago another group of islamic terrorists was arrested in the UK.

            the same jihadi stuff.

            both in Israel and in the UK, these people are in jails.
            not that many brainpower is needed to draw conclusions.

            • victor67

              Sorry I can’t recallHamas, Hezbullah, Palestinian Islamic Jihad or any other Palestinian organization targeting Britains. Any examples please.
              Also Hamas has repeatdly distanced itself from al qaeda and the global jihad.

              • AY

                hamas gets money from Americans and EU – certainly they will “denounce” qaeda in words. it names taqiyya.

                there is example when subcontinental “British” suicide terrorists bombed “Mike’s place” bar in Tel Aviv with the help of hamas.
                they are good colleagues.
                but you will probably say that ne, it’s OK, they only killed Jews.

                nevertheless, – facts remain facts. you can’t twist it.
                islamic terrorists are in jails in Israel.
                islamic terrorists are in jails in Britain.
                same koran, same jihad, same allahu akbar, same hate to Jews and non-muslims.

          • Simon Morgan

            This guy must read different history books to the rest us. ‘Chosen’ war? What the hell are you supposed to do when people keep lobbing rockets at you?

            And if you really can’t see the danger the regime in Iran poses to all of us, not only the Israelis, then there is simply no hope for you.

            • victor67

              Yes different books that tell the truth not the land without a people fiction. It must grate the lobby that a Palestinian narrative has become know in the West over the past 25 years.
              In terms of Iran I cannot recall them ever threatening UK. Its only our role in Pax Americana that puts us in danger from them. Thakfully Cameron has resisted the neo-cons like Gove and made the correct decision in not allowing UK bases to be used to attack Iran.
              Maybe however you think another ME war is what we need considering how well the last two have gone in the last 10 years.

              • Adam

                Perhaps you remember Iran saying Israel needs to be “wiped off the map”, that it will “disappear in a storm”, that the twelfth imam is coming (do please research this), or parading missiles in Tehran with the words “Death to Israel” on the side. Funny those Israelis should take that seriously.

      • Simon Morgan

        So Mr. Tyler and you would ask Israel to decommission it’s weapons and stand down it’s army? I see! I wonder why no one has ever considered such a possibility before – it seems so obvious now!

        And why the Israelis would feel the protect themselves over the last 60 years against their friends in Jordan, Egypt and Syria is a complete mystery. I think I’ll pen a letter to Netanyahu straight away….

        • victor67

          Yes its that unique sense of Israeli insequrity thats a cover for land grab and pre-emtive war.

          • Adam

            Whereas when Jordan invaded Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria, expelling all Jewish inhabitants and destroying the ancient synagogues, the oldest places of worship in Jerusalem, that wasn’t a land grab – but when Israel took it back, it was.
            Funny old world.

  • Adam

    D, Lindsay, victor 67, here is a video of a Palestinian who was recently released from Israeli custody in exchange for Gilad Shalit. In it, she smiles upon learning that she was responsible for killing more children than she originally thought. She is an example of who Mr Duncan thinks is worthy of more British taxpayers’ money than most British people earn.

    If you think these are the good guys, and it is “money well spent”, then I can’t help you.

  • Eddie

    Most foreign aid goes to enrich dictators and their croneys, so why the surprise? International aid props up regimes which are vile, and goodness knows why this government is increasing the aid while it’s cutting everything else!

    If we need to bribe corrupt natives (as we often do) then fine – that is what France and other countries do.

    But foreign aid sent to despots? Stop it all, I’d say.

    Of course, the USA effectively paid IRA members for years and has been a big supporter of terrorists it likes in Africa, Asia, South America. But we Brits should be above that sort of nonsense.

    They hate us for giving them money and aid anyway – just ask your average African. Fine. Let’s em eat babies.

  • Roy

    The insanity within the British administration knows no bounds. They see themselves as the provider to the devil, but not of course with their money, so easy to disburse other peoples. How they can show themselves on a podium in the public spotlight behoves their nerve. Where are all the sane people, the critics, the opposition to such actions in parliament and the media? Such imbeciles as him should be turfed out onto the road with a bucket of slops over them, and that would be too kind.

  • AY

    treason is everywhere.

    just have a look at BBC languages services.
    Europe is represented by French, Portugese, Spanish, Russian and Ukrainian.

    But such important languages are certainly there, as Azeri, Bangla, Hausa, Kinyarwanda, Kyrgyz, Kirundi, Pashto, Sinhala, Somali, Swahili, Tamil, and Urdu.

    we pay for that, too.

  • David Lindsay

    Doubtless you vigorously support the merger between Likud and Yisrael Beiteinu on the basis of the latter’s commitment to the denaturalisation of the only two growing sections of the Israeli population, the Arabs and the “ultra-Orthodox” Jews.

    Of course, merely taking away the citizenship of ancient indigenous Christians is very small beer by neocon standards. Look what your filthy kind has done to them in Iraq and is planning to do to them in Syria. All the while cheering on the replacement of the present Lebanese coalition of Christians and Muslims under a Sunni Prime Minister who is the Arab world’s leading centrist politician, with a ghastly Salfi-dominated alternative encompassing Phalangists and irredentist Lebanese Forces fighters (a kind of real IRA), with Armenian Stalinists and others making up the numbers.

    All of which rather calls to mind the lists of signatories to the Euston Manifesto and to the Henry Jackson Society, especially when they are set alongside each other. Molotov-Ribbentrop all round.

    • Baron

      David, Baron knows next to FA about the region, he doesn’t live there, never did, the thing that informs his take on the conflict is common sense. Israel is a democracy with all the warts, boils other constructs of similar ilk suffer from albeit of a different kind, the other lot is just about capable killing each other, sending the severed heads to their spouses. When they allow diversity of opinion, free and regular elections, the other stuff that goes with it Baron is quite willing to use a different prism through which to slice it between Israel and the Palestinians.


      • David Lindsay

        There are regular elections to the Palestinian Authority. There are in Lebanon, so long as Murray and his mates don’t get their way. There are in Iran, likewise. There are in Egypt and Tunisia now, but I cannot imagine that you like the results too much, any more than I do in, especially, the Tunisian case. If there aren’t free elections in Iraq, then what was it all for?

        None of those places has two governing parties both of which are funded entirely from abroad, mostly from the United States, where the reverse would rightly be illegal.

        None of those places has two governing parties at least one of which wants to revoke the citizenship of two large and growing sections of the population, within one of which sections are the original inhabitants who became Christian when the Roman Empire did and who then became Arabic-speaking, not much of a jump of what they spoke already, at the time of the Muslim Conquest.

        And none of those places has two governing parties both of which nevertheless sit in coalition with a party from the other of those groups, a party which holds that Gentiles were created as beasts of burden and that the concept of human rights is a Christian invention (which it is) whereas the Biblical Hebrew word for a human being can only refer to a Jew (which is rubbish, but that is what people now governing Israel really do believe and teach).

        Arguably, Israel was a kind of liberal beacon a long time ago. It is sure as hell no such thing now. Lebanon, in particular, is now better. At least unless Murray and his motley crew get their way.

    • Baron

      David, victor67, boys, Baron’s giving up, life’s not long enough to carry the argument any further, perhaps we should be grateful to live in a society that let’s us argue, ha?

      • AY

        they don’t argue – they play evil clowns.

        David Lindsay – I usually scroll down your atrocious rants, – but WTF is that about “Lebanon is better than Israel”.
        better – in what respect?

        life expectance, per capita GDP, child mortality, universities, freedoms, crime, corruption?

        better for whom – Christians? women? homosexuals? are there any Jews left?

        it is 5 to midnight for sectarian civil war there, but still Israel is the worst..

    • Augustus

      “Doubtless you vigorously support the merger between Likud and Yisrael Beiteinu…”

      And you obviously see no reason in “No loyalty, no citizenship”, or in any form of nationalism whatsoever. It is no bad thing to try and remove the impulse for war from the minds of Arabs, and to do so whilst actively encouraging immigration of Jews to a Jewish state. As far as Netanyahu is concerned, the charade of left-wing
      parties masquerading as centrist parties had to stop. Their only objective was to do
      whatever it took to remove Likud from its leadership role. They misled voters. The merger on the Right simply served to accentuate the battle lines between the two sides. As for the ultra-Orthodox Shas party, Netanyahu understood that the political bloc game is essentially over. That
      President Shimon Peres is just waiting for the opportunity to task someone other
      than him with assembling the next coalition. Netanyahu needed to do everything in his power to ensure that his party is the
      largest after the election (making him, as the leader of the largest party, the
      only person to assemble the coalition).After that, everyone will be lining up to join him.

  • David Lindsay

    Published in some Murdoch rag in New York. Says it all, really.

    Specifically, the Murdoch rag in New York that said Scooter Libby was innocent, which compared any study of the influence of Leo Strauss to McCarthysim (while Murray’s own book on neoconservatism does not mention Max Shactman or Trotskyism at all, it really is that bad), and which wants an open borders amendment to the US Constitution in the service of big business.

    Do we get a family Palestinian, Iraqi or (soon enough) Syrian Christians for every one of you people whom we deport to the holiday camp that you keep telling us that the Gaza Strip is? We could easily settle, so to speak, for that.

    • Baron

      David, what TF are you ranting about.

      You can buy the WSJ everywhere, London for inst., Baron used to buy it daily in Tokyo, it was regarded then as the best, it still is, well, certainly better thaan the NYT.

      The Libby’s remark smells of sour grapes, what an author puts in a book he writes concerns him, his audience, the open border issue is as far away from the topic here that it beggars belief you brought it up.

      You seem to possess facts aplenty, its wisdom cum intelligence that’s absent.

      • David Lindsay

        You know nothing about neoconservatism if you think that.

        Considered the best by whom? The thing is owned by Rupert Murdoch. It is evil.

        • Baron

          by people who buy it, does it surprise you? it’s called free market, you pays your money, you makes your choice.

          look, David, Murdoch may be the greatest evil the world has ever witnessed, but he got where he’s today by his own efforts, he’s never forced anyone to buy the Times, the NOW, millions did, Baron remembers when the guy put all his monies (and more) into Sky, every pundit was writing him off then, he persevered, he won. Today, every Dick&Harry who risked FA then wants to get on the act. Baron dislikes that, my blogging friend.

          • David Lindsay

            “His own efforts”? His political mates on four continents fixed it for him, as they still do. There is no “free” market. There is simply no such thing. It is always a fix. The question is how, by whom, and in whose interests.

            And the WSJ would be laughable if it didn’t have such influence. As this article of Murray’s illustrates.

  • The Sage

    Just confirms my suspicions that the entire DfID budget is pointless and wasted – not that you would think so if you watched the House of Lords “debate” this week. This was an opportunity for peers (of all stripes) to heap praise on the gruesome Department and to call for even more spending on foreign aid; suggesting that 0.7% of GDP (all borrowed) was not nearly enough to splurge on the “developing” world and that we were being mean-spirited handing over such a trifling percentage of our national income.

  • victor67

    What a load of b—-ck Murray. The vast majority of those detained by Israel are Political prisoners. Of the 11,000, 700 are children and 1200 are being held without trial.
    These prisoners include the charismatic Marwan Barghouti (Palestinian Mandela) who is held because he is unifying figure between Fatah and Hamas. Israel has always feared Palestinian unity hence his ongoing detention.
    So sounds like money well spent by Mr Duncan.

    • Baron

      victor67, you cannot be righter, sir, we need more democracies around the world the likes of Hamas, Fatah, free press, freedom of assembly, regular elections, the aim to destroy another race fully…..Why don’t we follow their example here, what’s stopping us, what you you reckon?

      and another thing

      so, the Fatah Hamas unity would be had at a stroke if your chum Barghouti were around free. What is it that fuels the few brain cells of your?

      • victor67

        Its funny how zionist apologists ascribe genocidial intentions to Hamas and ignore the parts of their charter that say they have no fight with ordinary Jews but only with the malignant form of zionism that caused their dispossion and ongoing persecution. Funny how that does not fit with the
        “poor little Israel narrative surrounded by genocidal arabs”

        • Baron

          got it, victor67, your friends want to kill off the zionists, let the Jews live, right?

          listen, in Israel, they have elections, people vote, governments are formed, policies formulated, people don’t like the policies, they vote against them at the next election, new governments with new policies come in ….. Can you follow this?

          If your friends were to adopt something akin to this, who knows, Baron may give them his backing.

          • victor67

            So are you for one person one vote in judea and Samaria or only votes for jews?. One wonders who is extinguishing the chances of peace. Khalid Meshal or Avigdor Lieberman. Maybe they have a lot in common!

  • Susan

    This is jizya and ransom money. This is how we in Britain are spared from terrorist attacks, by paying them off. I bet all Western countries are paying their own bit of ransom. US has to pay billions to Pakistan and is having to call that country an ally.

    • David Lindsay

      And American taxpayers contribute more to Israeli military spending than Israeli taxpayers do why, exactly?

      • Baron

        to ensure the only democracy in the ME survives?

      • Sharon Klaff

        Israel is legitimate democratic state. American taxpayers provide loan guarantees to Israel that have to be spent in America. They do not pay Israelis to kill civilians across the globe.

      • Iain Hill

        To secure Jewish votes in US elections!y

      • Ben

        Israel’s military spending is about 15 billion dollars annually, to which the US contributes about 3 billion dollars, i.e. around 20%.

        The US contribution is spent almost entirely on US manufactured armaments. The US receives in return an alliance with the strongest military power in the Middle East, a region that it has considered a vital strategic interest for many years. Considering the massive spending by the US on other military projects in the Middle East and elsewhere, this is arguably the most cost-effective outlay that it makes.

      • John

        So they don’t get destroyed by retarded, sick, Muslim psychopaths, perhaps? That would be top of my list…

  • les

    just a change of subject if i may could someone explain to me how labour mp linda riordan can rent out a flat to a labour mp and charge the taxpayer £1000 a month while living in a flat down the road and charge the taxpayer £1400 a month can this possibly be allowed she is ripping us off champagne socialist comes to mind

  • Suria

    Alan Duncan is gay and he supports Islamists. Who says turkeys don’t vote for Christmas? He is having to buy his friendship (with our money!) and if he really cares for the Palestinians, he should first look at Hamas and devote his time and effort at plight of these people in camps across the surrounding Arab world.

    • David Lindsay

      Or, alternatively, you don’t know the first thing about it.

    • Iain Hill

      I don’t see why you choose to compliment Mr Duncan on being gay in the middle of an otherwise critical comment.

  • les

    we have and still are paying terrorists and their families to live in the uk what is the difference we are completely mad and they know it

  • Judy

    Alan Duncan is a long time supporter of the Palestinian cause, and as DFID minister put up a video with remarks on which led to it being repudiated by FCO:

    Mr Duncan’s officials have now removed the video from the Department for International Development’s website, claiming that his comments had been “misinterpreted”.

    The minister made his remarks in a recording during a visit to the region earlier this year. He announced British aid to support primary education for 35,000 Palestinian children, help to create 8,000 jobs in the area and “direct payments” to 215,000 people so they can buy food, medicine and other essentials.

    In the video, Mr Duncan declared: “The wall is a land grab. It hasn’t just gone along the lines of the proper Israel boundary.

    “It’s taken in open land which actually belongs to Palestine. Israeli settlers can build what they want and then immediately get the infrastructure so that takes the water deliberately away from Palestinians here.”

    Besides that, we haven’t forgotten that he was most generous with £4000 of taxpayers’ money he ripped off legally for the upkeep of his garden–and that at the height of the scandal, he protested that unfortunate Tory millionaire MPs like himself were being “treated like shit” and “forced to live on rations”. Obviously an ideal junior minister for Andrew Mitchell, when he was running DfID.

    • victor67

      Supporting the Palestinian cause is now similar to the struggle against apartheid in South Africa. A noble endevour don’t you think?

      • Baron

        victor67, yup, if you like backing terrorists.

        and another thing

        so, how South Africa doing without the burden of apartheid then? Everyone happy, no poverty, less crime, democracy flowering?

        • victor67

          So you support Apartheid in both South Africa and the Occupied Terrritories?.
          In terms of backing terrorirsts. If you can call people resisting their enslavement and violent expulsion from their homeland then yes. Unlike the original ME terrorists. Begin, Shamir and Sharon.

          • Baron

            victor67, no, sir, Baron has no track with apartheid, he merely wanted to point out South Africa was in a shite when segregation was on, is in a shite still for reasons other than apartheid or not. The same applies or would apply for the ME lands.

        • David Lindsay

          If apartheid South Africa had still existed, then the neocons would have been very outspoken in its support. It met their every criterion as applied to Georgia, Israel and Taiwan.

          Many of them, including members of the present Cabinet, came up that way, also shilling for various Latin American and other juntas. The rest were Communists or Trotskyists.

          But they could agree on Bill Clinton and George W Bush. Saying everything that needs to be said about either of them.

      • John

        If I was the Israelis, I would raze Gaza to the ground. They’ll have to at some point – may as well get it done now…

    • Sharon Klaff

      And [the mandate of] Palestine is the area in which the international community agreed to re-establish the Jewish homeland called Israel. Instead they allowed the Hashemite occupation of 70% of that region. The British have now to correct that and agree finally to give [Trans]-Jordan to the Arab Palestinians and all land West of the Jordan River must remain Israel as promised to the Jewish Palestinians who after all were the secret ally that allowed Britain to defeat the Nazis in the region thus allowing her to retain an interest there. Mr Duncan, Britain must finally do the right thing and save its conscience and morality.

  • LB

    Gerrry Adams, Martin McGuiness, ….

    • David Lindsay

      Ah, the “centre ground”? Who has staked it out, who has built on it, and who now occupies it?

      The 1970s campus-based sectarian Left, variously Stalinist, Maoist and Trotskyist. Though with chemical and sexual habits that would not exactly have been tolerated in the USSR or, at least officially, in the PRC. And the 1980s campus-based sectarian Right, devoted to apartheid South Africa, with its official monument to Hitler, and to the Far Right, often Nazi-harbouring pioneers of monetarism in Latin America and elsewhere. Though with chemical and sexual habits that would not exactly have been tolerated by P W Botha or by General Pinochet.

      Those were the same chemical and sexual habits in both cases, and the two supposedly warring sides indulged in them together. Since they both came to unchallenged power, those habits have become legal for all practical purposes, and fall increasingly within the realm of enforced social respectability. Everything from cannabis and cocaine use, to sex between men and teenage boys. To be spread throughout the world. By armed force if necessary. That, apparently, is “the centre ground”.

      The archetype of this supposedly mainstream, moderate, sensible polity is the carve-up of Northern Ireland between a fully armed Marxist terrorist organisation, and a bizarre fundamentalist sect with little or no connection to the norm within Ulster Protestantism. That, apparently, is “the centre ground”.

      And the good old cause of these soi disant centrists is European federalism; see, for example, the Statement of Principles of the Henry Jackson Society. That has always been opposed by the completely ignored figures of pro-Commonwealth Keynesians in both main parties. And it subjects us to the legislative will of Stalinists and Trotskyists, neo-Fascists and neo-Nazis, members of Eastern Europe’s kleptomaniac nomenklatura, neoconservatives such as now run France and Germany, people who believe the Provisional Army Council to be the sovereign body throughout Ireland, Dutch ultra-Calvinists who will not have women candidates, and a French Green who is unrepentant about his active and proselytising sexual abuse of very young children when he was a leader of 1968 student movement, the birth of neoconservatism, which seeks to bomb the world into conformity with John Lennon’s Imagine.

      That, apparently, is “the centre ground”.

      • Simon Morgan


      • John

        As usual, no one knows what the hell you’re talking about, Lindsay.

  • Austin Barry

    Duncan is a smug, self-regarding, misguided idiot for sure, but then, on the evidence of recent trials, our welfare system has also been supporting domestic terrorists and their families for years by paying a form of Jizya. We are quite mad.

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